Not enough Gay characters

[demontrace]

Now I may seem like an unlikely source of gay support, being a straight male, but I think I speak for everyone that plays this game, when I say there aren't enough gay Wizard/Warriors. I think everyone would agree that there is a place for gay people in Warhammer, and there's no better place to start, than Gay Wizard/Warriors. One for EVERY race in this game. Obviously the Elves have gay people, and probably the Empire too, but what about Orcs, or Vampires? I think there's a place for gays in those races/species too. Gay Dwarves seem very likely, but what about gay demons?

Here's the catch. Every one of these Wizard/Warriors should be armed with glitter and rainbows. I want to see a bunch of Black Orks disintegrated with the power of rainbow glitter. I want to see towers collapse with the power of the rainbow.

I'd pay any price, maybe even a million dollars, to command the gayest Empire general/wizard, and obliterate Vlad Carsteins A-Hole will my rod of Righteousness.

Please make this happen. I'll take back every bad thing I've said about Creative Assembly, if you guys make this happen.

Thank you.
Big Demontrace out.

[Mörkö]

Elves are already in game?

[jonoliveira12]

Publicado originalmente por Mörkö:

Elves are already in game?

Unironically yes. Elves practice gay sex without inhibitions except those of personal nature. They never had a stigma against it.

[Boss]

Publicado originalmente por Cenwalh:

Publicado originalmente por Boss:

It did literally that. The Viking Age ended when nearly all Vikings were Christians.

And now you're jumping to the 1200s. Yes, they started some "Crusades" against Pagans. Pagans that had slaves and were continuing their way of life, which included raiding and capturing of slaves. Jesus dude. Are you being real right now?

You misunderstand. I am not trying to justify or glorify anything of the sort. Merely stating a fact - that Christianity did not put an end to any violence, it only emboldened it and changed it. Simply because it continued to carry out violence doesn't make it better than the violence carried out before. Hope that makes it clearer.

It did put an end to violence. It broke apart and ended the Norse way of life for the majority, bringing peace to a wealth of realms all across Europe. It literally did that. Jumping 200+ years into the future to talk about the war between pagan slave traders/pillagers and violent crusaders is a Red Herring at best. My statement was entirely factually correct in what it did.

As for the rest. Maybe. The problem is it needs to be done in a way that's genuine instead of a representation check box. I'm not a fan, for example, of stupid things like "Nippon" in DnD or "Now we have China" in Warhammer. It feels forced for the sake of check marking. There's plenty of Japanese/Chinese/Korean only fantasy stories that never once mention any sort of Europeans (like the Wuxia genre). Yet when there are stories taken literally from Western/Eastern europe folklore, people all of a sudden want to force "representation". It's tiresome.

I wouldn't mind a gay character, or bisexual character existing. Or some black character. I just don't want it to be forced upon me, and be a natural thing that occurs.

I'd be for the inclusion of Amazons, except their whole story is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bonkers and poorly written/awful. They're not like the amazing SIsters of Battle of 40k.

I'm glad Repanse was put in.

[Cenwalh]

Publicado originalmente por Boss:

As for the rest. Maybe. The problem is it needs to be done in a way that's genuine instead of a representation check box. I'm not a fan, for example, of stupid things like "Nippon" in DnD or "Now we have China" in Warhammer. It feels forced for the sake of check marking. There's plenty of Japanese/Chinese/Korean only fantasy stories that never once mention any sort of Europeans (like the Wuxia genre). Yet when there are stories taken literally from Western/Eastern europe folklore, people all of a sudden want to force "representation". It's tiresome.

I wouldn't mind a gay character, or bisexual character existing. Or some black character. I just don't want it to be forced upon me, and be a natural thing that occurs.

I'd be for the inclusion of Amazons, except their whole story is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bonkers and poorly written/awful. They're not like the amazing SIsters of Battle of 40k.

I'm glad Repanse was put in.

Yeah, OK. But now I ask you this - how do you judge if it's genuinely added or if it's 'forced'? What is the limit between 'forced' and 'natural' (your terms)??

This is what is unclear to me in all this online discourse about these topics. It seems that whenever a minority is put in a prominent position (main character, etc.), people use much more scrutiny to decide whether that character is OK or not.

My take on it is this - poorly written characters have always existed and will always continue to exist, regardless of their racial/sexual/whatever identity. Big media (hollywood, AAA publishers, etc.) has always tried to cater to what is popular and what sells. It's nothing more complicated than that. If you look back, this discourse was the same, for example, when women started appearing more in prominent roles in movies. Exactly the same as we have now. And similarly to what we have now, there were well-written characters and poorly written ones. Nothing has changed, just the focus on what will sell better, as perceived by publishers or movie producers. That's how I see it.

So, considering all that, I think we (we as in consumers or fans of a media product such as this game) would benefit much more from criticizing these additions based on how well they are written in, not what identity they have.

And let's be honest, TWWH3 is not mainly a story-driven game. Not for most players. Mechanics and gameplay are far more important. Story will always take a backseat when it comes to development time.

And another facet is catering to fans - Grand Cathay was desired by many fans, and I would say its addition was a resounding success. Sure, it still needs work, but I think the result is a net positive, no? Why can't it coexist with European-influenced factions (Empire, Bretonnia, etc.)? I say the bigger the world map, the better.
Considering they have good mechanics, LLs and a good integration mechanics-wise, would you say they were forced or naturally added?

[Ashtaroth The Defiler]

Publicado originalmente por Funky Monk:

I won't say anything, i'll just lay back, bring out my popcorn and just enjoy the show. 🍿👀

Best way to go about it. lol

[stompie5]

Publicado originalmente por Funky Monk:

Publicado originalmente por AurumHawke:

Grom the Paunch milked a centigor.

This is just too unholy :csgoskull:

It is common knowledge that Centigors produce the most delicious milk. Just try it sometime... trust me...

[Funky Monk]

Publicado originalmente por stompie5:

Publicado originalmente por Funky Monk:

This is just too unholy

It is common knowledge that Centigors produce the most delicious milk. Just try it sometime... trust me...

Trust you?

https://youtu.be/FntRpFyT7JY?si=nkn1lqyjxGuzZLwD

[Boss]

Araby and Cathay were bad. In the books. CA did a great job with Cathay and I'm enjoying it. But as I said, just because a game is featuring European culture/folklore does NOT MEAN there has to be an inclusion of other influences. Because it's not in other world building elements. IE: It's forced.

Cathay, however great it is, doesn't play any important or central role to Sigmar/Chaos, the MAIN THEMES OF THE GAME. Lizardmen with the grand net, High Elves with containing the Vortex. Skaven as a meme. Literally everything fits into a narrative space. You can tell which factions were inherent to the grand story and which were tacked on. Cathay is a literal "Hey we're here now" faction as a checkmark. It is incredibly easy to see if something is forced.

In terms of forcing things, a gay character WOULD be forced. How can you tell? Because there's a single set of character in the game that you actually get any sexual relation information on: Vlad and Isabella. The SINGLE example of a couple in the entire game. Everything else is completely unmentioned. Out of the game? Sure. Lots of lore.

So to "include a gay character" in WH3, that other players would KNOW is gay, would mean you'd have to insert information into the game to point it out. Something not done for any other character outside the Vampire Counts. Thus. Forced representation to check mark a box.

This isn't hard. It's not hard to tell.

Edit
To go into more detail, just wiki the Warhammer Empire/Men segments. The entire story of the origin of man in the Warhammer universe, of Teclis' tutelage. The Norscan tribes, etc... it all fits. And its all centrally located.

Cathay is just a bunch of bizarre storytelling shoved into the corner with absolutely no believable reason as to why it exists, much less has developed a culture so bizarrely different than the rest of Man in Warhammer, while also looking so vastly different in the span of Man's cannonically short time in Warhammer. It. Doesn't. Make. Sense.

Forced.

Cathay is very fun to play. But your suggestion that these "discussions" somehow can't tell what is, or isn't forced, is simply not believable.

[Kriss]

Do not give lube to the troll...

[cb4n28]

How do you know there aren't enough gay characters? As far as I can tell all the characters are gay

[stompie5]

Publicado originalmente por Boss:

Araby and Cathay were bad. In the books. CA did a great job with Cathay and I'm enjoying it. But as I said, just because a game is featuring European culture/folklore does NOT MEAN there has to be an inclusion of other influences. Because it's not in other world building elements. IE: It's forced.

Cathay, however great it is, doesn't play any important or central role to Sigmar/Chaos, the MAIN THEMES OF THE GAME. Lizardmen with the grand net, High Elves with containing the Vortex. Skaven as a meme. Literally everything fits into a narrative space. You can tell which factions were inherent to the grand story and which were tacked on. Cathay is a literal "Hey we're here now" faction as a checkmark. It is incredibly easy to see if something is forced.

In terms of forcing things, a gay character WOULD be forced. How can you tell? Because there's a single set of character in the game that you actually get any sexual relation information on: Vlad and Isabella. The SINGLE example of a couple in the entire game. Everything else is completely unmentioned. Out of the game? Sure. Lots of lore.

So to "include a gay character" in WH3, that other players would KNOW is gay, would mean you'd have to insert information into the game to point it out. Something not done for any other character outside the Vampire Counts. Thus. Forced representation to check mark a box.

This isn't hard. It's not hard to tell.

Edit
To go into more detail, just wiki the Warhammer Empire/Men segments. The entire story of the origin of man in the Warhammer universe, of Teclis' tutelage. The Norscan tribes, etc... it all fits. And its all centrally located.

Cathay is just a bunch of bizarre storytelling shoved into the corner with absolutely no believable reason as to why it exists, much less has developed a culture so bizarrely different than the rest of Man in Warhammer, while also looking so vastly different in the span of Man's cannonically short time in Warhammer. It. Doesn't. Make. Sense.

Forced.

Cathay is very fun to play. But your suggestion that these "discussions" somehow can't tell what is, or isn't forced, is simply not believable.

Cathay was mentioned in old lore. I think the 6ed Lizardmen codex has a story about a Cathayan invasion fleet destroyed by Slann. Also, the humans of Cathay have been dominated by Dragons, so it makes perfect sense for them to have a completely different culture

[Cenwalh]

Publicado originalmente por Boss:

(…)

So Vampire Coast is also forced, by that logic, right? They were only a spinoff army for Vampire Counts and they certainly play a much lesser role in the grand scheme of things.
In other words, we are not allowed to expand the world and the lore because that’s “forcing” a new narrative. Ridiculous.
Also by your logic, Vlad & Isabella’s relationship is also forced representation of heterosexuality since there aren’t any others mentioned.
Glad you cleared it up.
I agree that it shouldn’t matter to have a character’s orientation mentioend in such a game, it would be no more than a footnote in the lore text, which is barely visible at any point. So what would change if a few characters should have that mentioned in there? This is hardly a narrative driven game. It’s a sandbox, you create your own narrative with each campaign. How does it affect you if some lore tidbits mention such things?

[Rincewind]

You have an entire hbtq faction! Slaanesh! what more could you ask for?

[Bab Peeg]

!!! SQUAD BROKEN !!!

[Alar]

Just pretend some are gay without their sexuality being explicitly mentioned (because why would it be mentioned).