State of Bretonnia - Louen Leoncoeur Immortal Empires even on Normal unplayable mess

[ARFett]

Feels like WH3 Immortal Empires Louen Leonceur is just a total mess:

- Research tree is useless as all the "confederate" the small duchies takes longer than they hold.

And the funniest trash:

Lyonesse takes 4 turns to get the confederate option - but surprise - you need 700 chivalry which is nigh impossible at the beginning.

And later - surprise - Lyonesse is eradicated.

So the whole confederate research is useless garbage as all the small duchies are almost insta wipe.

With no "revive" option like with the elector counts of the Empire this is the same broken mechanic which made the Empire Elector Counts mechanic such a joke until the sweeping and needed changes for the Empire - which mended things for the Empire.

- Hyperaggressive enemies even on normal

You are swarmed by the undead (which are pretty much manageable) but then also by Belekor almost insta on meet and then Grom in no time with 40 pieces army together with another Orc stack of 13-14 on round 8 plus Whaag bonus units pretty much almost (yeah thks - f*** this sh**) while you field pretty much peasant trash as you scrape by with almost no upgrade to your towns.

- Research tree is totally garbage for WH3 and just copied from WH2 which got different mechanics

At the moment the reasearch tree for Louen is just trash and not even remotely cleaned up and adjusted to WH3 or even the Immortal Empires mechanics.

The large part of the confederate small bretonnian powers is fully useless as they are just gobbled up in the first 10 rounds of the game.

And even if you by wonder keep some alive - surprise - the 700-1000 chivaly confederate costs are just so massive that you can not even think about confederating them early.

As it is totally broken garbage research.

- Nerfed starting army while raising the stakes as mentioned above

Louen has the worst starting army of all the Bretonnian lords.

As it is the others are vastly superior.

So while he has the worst position you are also straddled with the worst starting army of all Bretonnians.

Double fail.

[MjauMix]

People actually play as the french?

[KiT2142]

Yeah, brettonia needs total overhaul. They're pretty much a warhammer 1 faction with it's simple and tame mechanics, while everyone around them(except norsca) are modern factions with OP mechanics

[(Steelclaw)]

Are we playing the same game? Bretonnia is really strong in the current version.

Their economy is insane (serious contenders for best economy in TWH3), their growth is great, their casualty replenishment is pretty good, and their high-tier cavalry is probably the best in the game. Grail Knights/Guardians can take 2/3 of the health off an infantry unit with just the impact of the charge, and unlike most cavalry, they don't struggle fighting monsters. Every LL except Alberic is also fantastic in a fight (Repanse's strength being split between her and Henri), and Alberic is okay.

I'm not sure what you're referring to about oceans - ocean is Uninhabitable for most factions as a settlement climate, and I've never noticed Brets to be more susceptible to ocean attrition than anyone else.

Regarding starting armies, Louen's isn't as good as the Fey Enchantress', but it's better than the rest. Pegasus Knights are an extremely powerful tool in siege, and pretty good in general, and you get more knights than Alberic or Repanse.

It is absolutely true that not every faction is worth confederating, because some of them will die before you can manage it. There's a similar downside to overinvesting in diplomatic confederation with minor factions which end up dying. If you can't keep them alive, you're not going to confederate them, whether by tech or by diplo.

Being surrounded by enemies makes for a challenging game, but harder isn't the same as worse. In fact, I'd just say it balances out them being powerful and avoids their campaigns being total stomps.

To clarify, I'm not against Bretonnia getting a faction update (probably with future FLC), but power-wise they're doing just fine right now.

[Ashley]

Originally posted by ARFett:

trash

That's all you needed to say

[Jack Greedy]

There is great mod for Bretonnia by Lily.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3304559565

Catch!

[KoboldUtopian]

Nonsense.

Even if you can't manage to keep your minor factions alive that just means you can ignore that tech. Doesn't make the "whole faction trash!!!!".

You're also forgetting that they don't have supply lines so every army should have 3 knight lords following it around. Should be plenty to deal with goblins.

[Logi]

Are you sure the Ocean attrition thing was not a Storm in the water province that causes attrition to everyone? I've not seen any other reason for attrition on the Ocean.

You have some valid points that they could do with an update and the tech tree could be a bit better. I think they could do with another type of hero, an infantry sergeant who buffs perhaps.

In battle though I find them very strong whether I am playing as them or against them. All that cav charging around can cause havoc on the battlefield.

[Many-Named]

yeah free LC and it shows, terrible faction

[Korrex]

Personally I'm hoping that they hit bretonnia with the Slaanesh patch that's hopefully coming next year. If they they tack on the Vampire Counts then they could knock out the two most in need or work factions alongside Slaanesh.

[ARFett]

Originally posted by Logi:

Are you sure the Ocean attrition thing was not a Storm in the water province that causes attrition to everyone? I've not seen any other reason for attrition on the Ocean.

No storm.

Maybe the last patch broke something.

I was also surprised as I did not had this with the bretonnians before.

You have some valid points that they could do with an update and the tech tree could be a bit better. I think they could do with another type of hero, an infantry sergeant who buffs perhaps.

In battle though I find them very strong whether I am playing as them or against them. All that cav charging around can cause havoc on the battlefield.

Well, I agree they have strong cavalry but getting on normal difficulty in round 8 a 40 orc stack plus another 13-14 stack of orcs just is getting ridiculuos.

The removal of one more duchy to lustria just means the undead, mousilllon and grom steamroll all.

More like grom steamrolls all.

And sorry:

On round 8 with barely a scratch of coin and the building not really upgraded i only got the 4 starting knights on leon filled out with peasant foot and archer to get fast a 20 stack.

54 orc units are just too much on round 8.

But then the AI blatantly cheats with recruitment.

If you see this large stack with 25% already grade 4 units of orcs in round 8 I say f+++ this blatant AI cheat.

[ARFett]

Originally posted by (Steelclaw):

Are we playing the same game? Bretonnia is really strong in the current version.

Their economy is insane (serious contenders for best economy in TWH3), their growth is great, their casualty replenishment is pretty good, and their high-tier cavalry is probably the best in the game. Grail Knights/Guardians can take 2/3 of the health off an infantry unit with just the impact of the charge, and unlike most cavalry, they don't struggle fighting monsters. Every LL except Alberic is also fantastic in a fight (Repanse's strength being split between her and Henri), and Alberic is okay.

I'm not sure what you're referring to about oceans - ocean is Uninhabitable for most factions as a settlement climate, and I've never noticed Brets to be more susceptible to ocean attrition than anyone else.

Regarding starting armies, Louen's isn't as good as the Fey Enchantress', but it's better than the rest. Pegasus Knights are an extremely powerful tool in siege, and pretty good in general, and you get more knights than Alberic or Repanse.

It is absolutely true that not every faction is worth confederating, because some of them will die before you can manage it. There's a similar downside to overinvesting in diplomatic confederation with minor factions which end up dying. If you can't keep them alive, you're not going to confederate them, whether by tech or by diplo.

Being surrounded by enemies makes for a challenging game, but harder isn't the same as worse. In fact, I'd just say it balances out them being powerful and avoids their campaigns being total stomps.

To clarify, I'm not against Bretonnia getting a faction update (probably with future FLC), but power-wise they're doing just fine right now.

I agree with the basic statement.

But fact is as it is now you barely get to round 8 and just get steamrolled by bloated 20 or even 40stacks (orcs) because the AI also blatantly cheats with upkeep and massive recruitment in one turn even with basic buildings.

Mind you:

The confrontation with 54 units of orcs was on round 8

And there you only have 4 knights and rest stack of peasants who run screaming even if you tip them barely with any unit from the sides.


So you do not even get close to recruit the truly good knights nor have the buildings or money.

[Mazisky]

Bretonnia needs some love, they are the ones that keep the land safe from the Skaven filthy rats and erase them from the existence every time they come out of Skavenblight and behave badly.

[Bane Is A Big Guy]

I'll agree WAAAGHs are super strong early game for the AI.

[Logi]

As you start near Grom and he can get dangerous quick, i guess Lightning Strike is the first skill to aim for as Louen to negate the waargh army. Or if its too early then you would have to ambush Grom so its a 20 vs 20 battle.

I will have to have another go at his campaign myself as I haven't played it in a while and see how bad his start spot is now.

[Hieronymous]

Brettonia needs some serious TLC, in the form of DLC.

Delete Ludicrous Content.

The devs allow this faction to carry on, undeleted, just flapping the breeze as narrative dirty laundry. Its a shame.