The Daemon Prince Desperetly needs a tip-to-toe rework

[Robot Gorillaman]

I will start by saying the Daemon Prince's campaign is easily my favorite I've completed it a dozen times if not more. But ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is it terrible. He starts off without an actual character and faction trait, so from the get go he is already weaker than everybody else, he needs to spent 6-12 skill points on stuff that generic lords get for 3 points and he gets route marcher earliest at level 7 when everybody else gets it at level 1 making him feel terrible to level. He doesn't get normal items and anchilleries, but his limbs to not give good enough bonuses to compensate for it. He can get set bonuses which would help him early but he gets them when he is almost done with the campaign. His favour bonuses up until the halfway point are useless, and primarily buff him (Barely mind you, like +2 leadership and 10% weapon Strength) instead of giving bonuses against mortals, who he should be fighting since he wants to be worshipped as a god (especially by Kislev, but he is not sent in that direction at all for some reason). With all of that then there are the body parts. A Nurgle set gives Charge defence vs large for plaguebearers (Great!), Which is already given to you through favour (wait), You only get wingless once you dedicate to Undivided (Why?!) The SLAANESH sword Chaos Blade uses a TZEENTCH sword model (WHY?!). Even beyond just his mechanics being terribly designed and implimented. His buildings are all the same and just terrible, and you can't trade so your economy is terrible, when other factions will have 3-4 armies you will be lucky to be able to afford 2. His victory conditions send him to kill warriors of Chaos factions (Archeon, Sigvald, Valkia, Kholek and Azazel) Which doesn't make anysense if you dedicate yourself to slaanesh or khorne. Why Isn't he suppposed to kill Kislev and Be'lakor?

Fix Daniel CA please

[Enelith]

Pls, make your post more readable for people.

I didn't read the all thing, but just from title, yes, Daemon Prince needs something to be done. He just suck and is not well implemented.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Not gonna say that he wouldn't benefit from some more work, but i'l throw in some counter arguments as well.

Originally posted by That one guy everybody hates:

I will start by saying the Daemon Prince's campaign is easily my favorite I've completed it a dozen times if not more. But ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is it terrible. He starts off without an actual character and faction trait, so from the get go he is already weaker than everybody else, he needs to spent 6-12 skill points on stuff that generic lords get for 3 points and he gets route marcher earliest at level 7 when everybody else gets it at level 1 making him feel terrible to level. He doesn't get normal items and anchilleries, but his limbs to not give good enough bonuses to compensate for it. He can get set bonuses which would help him early but he gets them when he is almost done with the campaign.

Some of those parts can be rather good, just gotta be a bit creative. Just as a example a early Khorne head gives regen in melee and he has more the one source of a damage over time aura that hurts any unit close by (Love that combo).

Also the first set bonuses can be achieved early/mid game, not even close to "done with campaign". That said, early on i personally highly prefer mixing and matching because you get way more out of him that way then the early sets.

Originally posted by That one guy everybody hates:

His favour bonuses up until the halfway point are useless, and primarily buff him

His early favor rewards primarily boosts the whole faction (Perfect example being them giving your faction the lesser god abilities like the Slaanesh charm ability, a version of Nurgle plagues, the teleport stance, a version of bloodletting. But we also have stuff like giving your whole faction more sacking income and the like).

Originally posted by That one guy everybody hates:

With all of that then there are the body parts. A Nurgle set gives Charge defence vs large for plaguebearers (Great!), Which is already given to you through favour (wait), You only get wingless once you dedicate to Undivided (Why?!) The SLAANESH sword Chaos Blade uses a TZEENTCH sword model (WHY?!).

Fully agree on this part, some useless bonuses and more then one obviously mismatched body part where they should use another model. But i will also note that Tzeentch has a wingless part now days that you can unlock with the trails of fate (its the tentacles, they aren't wings).

Originally posted by That one guy everybody hates:

His victory conditions send him to kill warriors of Chaos factions (Archeon, Sigvald, Valkia, Kholek and Azazel) Which doesn't make anysense if you dedicate yourself to slaanesh or khorne. Why Isn't he suppposed to kill Kislev and Be'lakor?

While it would make sense for him to focus on Kislev given his backstory, him wanting to take on the other "champions" also makes sense, since chaos fights each other way more then they ever fought the "good guys" and Daniel wants to show Archeon (and the other champions) who the "true everchosen" is. Even if you dedicate to the same god as one of the champions you would still fight them to be the one most favored by said god. Chaos is in a state of constant infighting and well... chaos... Only rarely joining together temporarily for a great crusade or the like (either because of some sort of deal between the chaos gods, or because a champion powerful enough to force everyone else in line have risen).

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Personally i think the main issue with him is his starting location in immortal empires. Facing Mallus right at the start is a pain. But that is the only critical issue in my book (spending a few points in the "respect of the north" skill is more then enough to prevent everyone nearby from declaring war on you). The rest are minor issues where a bit of spit and polish would be nice.

[Falaris]

Daniel's campaign is different, that's for sure.

Poor base stats, but .. 7 body parts each giving as much bonus as a pretty high-grade quest item? That kind of makes up for a lot.

I find his versatility his biggest strength. He can be reconfigured quite easily, even from battle to battle. Fighting hordes? Go with mortis engine effects. SEM's? Make him an anti-large monster with high barrier.

WIth that said, I tend to go with a design I like and stick to it, but that's because I'm a scrub.

As for skills... his skills come slower than others, but he gets access to a very diverse set of options; more so than most.

On the other hand - Big drawback: No cultists or exalted warriors.

I feel like he's not in a great place, but at the same time he's certainly interesting. There's tons of mods that improve/change him. May be worth checking those out to start with.

[DDkiki]

I think CA over bloated him without giving actual substance. He would be more fun if he could field ONLY daemons without any mortals, which would already make him feel more unique, some mod made him semi-horde ala vampirates which might actually be fun, he is leading Legion of Chaos after all. But in general his skill tree need a major rework with more base bonuses.

[Red Bat]

The biggest problem with Daniel is that the Chaos Undivided Warriors of Chaos factions do everything he does better.

At least he's not Nurgle...

[Achilles]

The demon prince should’ve been a realms of chaos only character. That or make a proper demons of chaos faction.

[DDkiki]

Originally posted by Achilles:

The demon prince should’ve been a realms of chaos only character. That or make a proper demons of chaos faction.

Yup, he and Belly should've been Daemons of Chaos faction with all daemons without mortals, belakor doesn't make sense as WoC.

[Greldinart]

at end tier his army are damn cheap if your spec in one god, but what is frustrating is that you have 5 way to play him, 1 all round, 4 monogod.
the autobattle is also very bad since lot of daemons dont have shield or armor.

[BigRockWall]

Just the tip

[Païtiti]

Idk one of the few campaigns I actually finished. I liked it.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Greldinart:

at end tier his army are damn cheap if your spec in one god, but what is frustrating is that you have 5 way to play him, 1 all round, 4 monogod.
the autobattle is also very bad since lot of daemons dont have shield or armor.

You do have access to chaos warriors with shield and armor (not chosen admittedly. But still). Also, adding some other discounts in his skill tree and his set bonuses you can easily make his army not only cheap, but free (no matter what high tier units you put into it).