Lets talk about of our Bone Daddy Nagash

[LetiferDragon]

And so, we are all waiting for our favorite Nagash, with what will very well be exactly like a better version of Danial's undead race with Nagash at the helm. That said, digging deeper...it seems to me that Nagash as a faction as LL can be made much more elaborate in terms of mechanics and his assistance with all undead. Let me demonstrate the following points:

THE POWER OF NAGASH AND ITS TRANSFORMATION IN THE GAME
If you look at his transformation from a gameplay and power perspective, you can make Nagash have three forms depending on how he progresses towards his goal. In the early game, Nagash will be very weak and barely revived but still has powers, that is a bit above a Master Necromancer who will be limited both in strength and in maintaining an army where he may have only skeletons and a handful of Nagashizzar Guardians at first. That after he gains his power by taking the right amount of books and his artifacts reaching mid-game, he can use a ritual to become stronger by turning into a second form. And for the divine form from ET will need to destroy Settra and capture the Black Pyramid through a very long ritual where will interfere not only scavens but also Settra with other Tomb Kings and even other races. Where eventually Nagash will stand before us at the end of the game in all his glory as the Supreme Lord of the Undead where he will be very powerful on the level of Kroak (and no not as LH!) with the ability to camp with the Black Pyramid and build your armies there. To then begin the execution of his grand plan to destroy all life and stop Chaos, which is to destroy all enemies, perform rituals, destroy Archaon with his Chaos, and cover the entire world with a dead cold hand all over the world... Yes, you can say that it is all borrowed from the mod, but it is proposed a little more to be distinguishable from the mod to be much more in-depth in the process of the game. And in PvP it will be possible to make it so that we can choose which Nagash to take for the network game on the maps.

​UNITS FOR NAGASH
Since practically most see Nagash as a separate race like Danyal, which is correct, but if you only take units from all three races it would be like FLC. But to give Nagash a unique composition where you can take from: 4th Edition Undead, 8th Edition Vampires from passages on Nagashizzar, and of course ET. We end up with a list that would be perfect for Nagash:

Nagashizzar skeletons that will stand out not only in appearance but also in characteristics
Mummies (if not by TK)
Nagashizzar Guard (in three versions)
Nagashizzar Knight (in two versions)
Scavenger Riders
Morghasts
Glowing Ghouls
Bone Golems
Giant Bone Throwers
Maybe some Yaghur living from the Nagash the Unbroken novel.
Liche generic Lord (if it doesn't go to Vampires)
Wight generic Lord (if it doesn't go to Vampires)
Cultist generic Hero
Morghast generic Hero (in late game)
Undead Chariots
The Elemental of Death

SETTLEMENT INTERACTION
Since Nagash is only interested in places of power, then taking also on the note of the mod that Nagash will be mechanics like the Chaos Warriors, because he is not interested in small settlements and you can make it so that he could destroy small settlements and its inhabitants killed turning into an army of undead. Or turning cities into burial grounds instead of cities with no one but undead. Moreover, from a gameplay point of view, he won't need the living and then only as cultists worshipping him as a God, which means he won't need to monitor public order if they are essentially all dead. And therefore he will need cities imbued with Necromancy, and the rest of the insignificant settlements to destroy by getting a temporary army of undead or turning into burial grounds with their bonuses.

NAGASH MECHANICS
Since we all know the mechanics of the mod, through technology with two branches of development like Mortarchs and Rituals. And since it would be more interesting to do something above and beyond the mod, with interaction with the undead from each race, we can imagine similar following options:

Mortarchs
They could be recruited after Nagash has reached his strength to take key Mortarchs to himself, either by warp stone or by domination (think of Tamurhan's similar resource where we took chieftains and their units). And the Mortarchs themselves could offer their units so that Nagash could interact with them, because if Nagash in the early or mid game he could recruit units of other races through Mortarchs, then in the late game he could recruit them absolutely freely and without Mortarchs. Although it would make more sense if these units were limited due to Nagash's own power limitations, then in divine form he could recruit them as much as he wanted except for constructs since they reflect the Gods of Nehekhara, and they hate Nagash as much as he hates them, so they would be limited in number. If playing for the key Mortarchs started the Nagash Crisis, you were offered a choice, where either you stand up for Nagash but at the same time will be at war with the world but get a big bonus and Abyssal Dread as maunts (if you play for Mannfred, Neferat or Arkhan the Black). Or stand against Nagash but the undead will fight you and the world will be loyal to you. For after Nagash's defeat, he could be recruited or destroyed. And if you recruited Nagash, the world would be hostile to you, and if you destroyed him, the world would be friends with you. There's a lot more to think about.

Interaction with the undead
If we take from the recent DLC, namely with Gorbad where he has mechanics related to interaction with units giving bonuses to them certain bonuses. That in idea it is possible to make similar with all units, as interaction of vampire units and tomb kings, vampire pirates with vampire counts or tomb kings with Nagashizzar units and so on.

Rituals and interaction with the Books of Nagash
Since the Rituals themselves were as in a separate tab where we summoned an army of undead or defile the entire world with vampire foulness and for this you had to pay with Warp Stone. And through the technology we conducted Rituals depending on the captured necessary settlements and built certain buildings after the ritual you were attacked by scripted armies of different races. So...in idea you can do a little differently, and make Rituals and customize flexible spell settings through the Books of Nagash. Rituals require a certain amount of Necromantic energy, Nagash's level, and the amount of warp stone to perform a certain amount of rituals to accomplish tasks. Since Nagash has knowledge of different magic, such as Vampires, Light, Death and Undeath, you can use the Books to include those spells that you like and get some passive or active buffs for Nagash. There is a lot to think about and you can offer your options. And in order to unlock this mechanic, then you will need to find and pick up all the books to eventually fold them into a legendary item exclusive to Nagash.

A new corruption: Corruption of Undeath.
Since vampires have their own scourge, the idea is for Nagash to have his own scourge as a uniqueness that will give buffs to his race, and it will be a bigger problem for the living than vampire scourge.

INTERACTION WITH THE BLACK PYRAMID
Since the Black Pyramid is one of Nagash's fiefdoms, as well as Nagashizzar, then in addition to buildings in the pyramid you can make a mechanic where you can create Morgasts as Ice Witches for Kislev, as well as Lich Lords who will also have their own features or turn Necromancer Masters into Lich who have reached their level for elevation. In addition, it will be possible to create necromantic artifacts ala as in the Tomb Kings or Dwarfs.

Interaction with races and the undead.
Since Nagash will return to the world, the Tomb Kings will hate him fiercely and the Vampires will favor him but will not want to interact with him until you reach a level of power, for the Vampires will have no choice but to serve you, and the Tomb Kings will resist and try to stop you until you destroy them and get the Traitor Kings.

INTERACTION WITH THE CROWN OF NAGASH
Since the Crown of Sorcery is in Azhag's possession, there should obviously be a quest battle after winning which you will be given the crown and Azhag's faction will be destroyed. And by lore, since the Crown has its own power, it gives mechanics similar to the Crown of Nemesis, but with a bias in Necromancy and the conquest of all undead factions up to their vassalization and the living races will hate you fiercely and wage war against you. And with each new power of Nagash, his crown gains more power so that the whole world, including Chaos, will go to war against you to prevent you. And if you play for Azhag, or for someone else, you can meet the choice of Nagash with an offer that you can get, if you listen to him then get the blessing and undead but diplomacy with others will deteriorate. If you are against it, you will be depuffed until you sharpen the Crown as with Crown of Nemesis.

NAGASH LEGIONS TECHNOLOGY
If in the mod we included in the technologies as improvements, buffs and unlocks of personal items of each Mortarch, and the second tab included as conducting Ritual to receive bonuses and negative diplomatic influence with the outside world. Then in connection with the latest revisions can be made so that Technology at Nagash should include two tabs where one related to the Undead from skeletons and zombies to improvements with buffs for Morgasts and units of higher rank. And the second tab in the improvement and development of the faction itself giving bonuses for each Mortarch and for Nagash in particular. For if we take the formula of Danial and the mod, then with the right technologies.

NAGASH'S NARRATIVE CAMPAIGN IN IE
Thinking back to the interviews where the writers talked about Nagash and Tankuol as important characters that the game needs, not to mention that IE will be a priority for future DLCs. That well for our iconic character who contributed so much to everything, it makes much more sense to recreate Nagash's immersive storyline. It's like they said in interviews that Nagash's mission is his journey to become a God and therefore, we need a storyline that would be interesting to follow on the level of a Vortex storyline or similar. Where for a certain achievable action we were shown a cutscene where Nagash grows in power, recruits Mortarchs and then reaches the peak of his divine power until the finale where all living things turn undead under his rule. That's what we need in terms of plot!

[Faptor]

OP, I just wanted to tell you I love you.
I agree with everything.

!!!!NAGASH!!! says he loves you too.

Thank you for writing out such a detailed, glorious, interesting, eloquent and hopefully on point post.
CA! LISTEN TO THIS MAN!


I 200% agree with your idea about making his campaign more of a narrative experience. Honestly, I would like that in IE as a whole. I know they try spice it up with an end game crises but this could make it more like a SUPER end game crises. I would like it if they did the same for WoC/Archaon as well. It would be like a mini-campaign inside of IE instead of the normal "Conquer X Territory's to win".

Im fresh off a NAGASH mod playthrough and didnt stop until I painted the map after becoming a true god. Its such a refreshing and memorable experience that ive done it 5 times so far.


TLDR: I loves ya, CA needs ya. CA, make it happen! please and thank you.

[SBA77]

I still don't get why people keep insisting Nagash should get a race pack. He never had his own race in Warhammer Fantasy, either being part of the Vampire Counts or the older Undead faction before they broke it up into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

All they need to do give him a Lord Pack for Vampire Counts or Tomb Kings at the very the least, though if they really wanted to put in the effort they'd give him a Chaos Undivided-style Undead faction, where he gets access to the entire Tomb Kings and Vampire Count and Coast rosters. Maybe to make it even more lore-friendly he could start with Tomb Kings Vampire Counts but has to defeat all the other Undead factions to get their rosters so it'd be like he's uniting them.

[Faptor]

Originally posted by SBA77:

I still don't get why people keep insisting Nagash should get a race pack. He never had his own race in Warhammer Fantasy, either being part of the Vampire Counts or the older Undead faction before they broke it up into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

Because he IS necromancy. Tossing on old stuff thats already in game doesn't do him justice.

You can wait until hes close to godhood before giving him the really good stuff, if that helps?
Like, in the beginning just give him a mix of VC/TK units and once he starts gaining power, give him some special stuff.


Idk, imagine if they put Sigmar in as a LL. Would it be satisfying if he had a regular empire roster? How about when they added in the Demons of Chaos, If all Ku'gath got was Muraders it would be really bogus and lacklustre.

We are talking about the Skelepope, the Big Bone Daddy (BBD), THe figgin Undying KING! You cant do my boy dirty like they did Kroak and just make him some hero or generic lord with nothing more than a handful of zombies or skelearchers. He deserves better.

[Basarab Laiota]

Nagash was weak.

[Faptor]

Originally posted by Basarab Laiota:

Nagash was weak.

YOU'RE WEAK!!

*runs away crying*

Hes a boss, He just had a little rat problem that ARKHAN and those pesky vampires couldn't take care of... if only they did their jobs, ya know? Why is good help so hard to find?!!

[Bane Is A Big Guy]

Originally posted by Faptor:

Originally posted by SBA77:

I still don't get why people keep insisting Nagash should get a race pack. He never had his own race in Warhammer Fantasy, either being part of the Vampire Counts or the older Undead faction before they broke it up into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

Because he IS necromancy. Tossing on old stuff thats already in game doesn't do him justice.

You can wait until hes close to godhood before giving him the really good stuff, if that helps?
Like, in the beginning just give him a mix of VC/TK units and once he starts gaining power, give him some special stuff.


Idk, imagine if they put Sigmar in as a LL. Would it be satisfying if he had a regular empire roster? How about when they added in the Demons of Chaos, If all Ku'gath got was Muraders it would be really bogus and lacklustre.

We are talking about the Skelepope, the Big Bone Daddy (BBD), THe figgin Undying KING! You cant do my boy dirty like they did Kroak and just make him some hero or generic lord with nothing more than a handful of zombies or skelearchers. He deserves better.

Why would they add sigmar?

[LetiferDragon]

Originally posted by Faptor:

OP, I just wanted to tell you I love you.
I agree with everything.

!!!!NAGASH!!! says he loves you too.

Thank you for writing out such a detailed, glorious, interesting, eloquent and hopefully on point post.
CA! LISTEN TO THIS MAN!


I 200% agree with your idea about making his campaign more of a narrative experience. Honestly, I would like that in IE as a whole. I know they try spice it up with an end game crises but this could make it more like a SUPER end game crises. I would like it if they did the same for WoC/Archaon as well. It would be like a mini-campaign inside of IE instead of the normal "Conquer X Territory's to win".

Im fresh off a NAGASH mod playthrough and didnt stop until I painted the map after becoming a true god. Its such a refreshing and memorable experience that ive done it 5 times so far.


TLDR: I loves ya, CA needs ya. CA, make it happen! please and thank you.

That's why I made this post, so people and CA can understand how to better implement Nagash by making it unique and truly lore-based. I absolutely loved how Gorbad, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and Uzhul were done with their mechanics, so why not do the same for Nagash?

[LetiferDragon]

Originally posted by SBA77:

I still don't get why people keep insisting Nagash should get a race pack. He never had his own race in Warhammer Fantasy, either being part of the Vampire Counts or the older Undead faction before they broke it up into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

All they need to do give him a Lord Pack for Vampire Counts or Tomb Kings at the very the least, though if they really wanted to put in the effort they'd give him a Chaos Undivided-style Undead faction, where he gets access to the entire Tomb Kings and Vampire Count and Coast rosters. Maybe to make it even more lore-friendly he could start with Tomb Kings Vampire Counts but has to defeat all the other Undead factions to get their rosters so it'd be like he's uniting them.

He has no use for either of them, for they are all descended from Nagash and his action. Therefore, all must belong to Nagash as a single force, for all are his creations. And it's clear why he was in the 4th edition of Undead and then in End Times, because he is the one and only true Lord of all undead.

[Reaver79]

Nagash was a failure..

[LetiferDragon]

Originally posted by Faptor:

Originally posted by SBA77:

I still don't get why people keep insisting Nagash should get a race pack. He never had his own race in Warhammer Fantasy, either being part of the Vampire Counts or the older Undead faction before they broke it up into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

Because he IS necromancy. Tossing on old stuff thats already in game doesn't do him justice.

You can wait until hes close to godhood before giving him the really good stuff, if that helps?
Like, in the beginning just give him a mix of VC/TK units and once he starts gaining power, give him some special stuff.


Idk, imagine if they put Sigmar in as a LL. Would it be satisfying if he had a regular empire roster? How about when they added in the Demons of Chaos, If all Ku'gath got was Muraders it would be really bogus and lacklustre.

We are talking about the Skelepope, the Big Bone Daddy (BBD), THe figgin Undying KING! You cant do my boy dirty like they did Kroak and just make him some hero or generic lord with nothing more than a handful of zombies or skelearchers. He deserves better.

True, but if you dig a little deeper...it logically should be a little different in my opinion. For Nagash needs mostly his own units created by him as well as his fortress Nagashizzar, besides Morgasts and Dread Abyssal, because all units can be obtained with Mortarchs and then all after elevation. And I would like to see new units like Nagashizzar Guards and such.

[LetiferDragon]

Originally posted by Reaver79:

Nagash was a failure..

Justify and explain your point of view

[D-Black Catto]

lets not forget neferata

[LetiferDragon]

Originally posted by D-Black Catto:

lets not forget neferata

Neferata will of course appear, the only question is when and how. Since a DLC style option like Champions of Chaos would be...unlikely to be honest, how much in fact seems plausible in adding the current DLC style with three races. And then it would still be nice to update Tomb Kings and Pirates (which will likely only be a global patch)

[SBA77]

Originally posted by Faptor:

Originally posted by SBA77:

I still don't get why people keep insisting Nagash should get a race pack. He never had his own race in Warhammer Fantasy, either being part of the Vampire Counts or the older Undead faction before they broke it up into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

Because he IS necromancy. Tossing on old stuff thats already in game doesn't do him justice.

But in Tabletop he didn't get new stuff except maybe Dread Abyssals which were just mounts for the Mortarchs.

[Faptor]

Originally posted by SBA77:

But in Tabletop he didn't get new stuff except maybe Dread Abyssals which were just mounts for the Mortarchs.

Im a big tardo and didnt understand what you meant xD
I also dont know anything about TT WH, only the books >.<

Honestly, all of my arguments boil down to "I love Nagash" and "Nagash is really cool" so im always going to er on the side of "Give him unique stuff because hes awesome"