why do historical total war fans HATE total war warhammer?

[lystrosaurus with trauma]

like i find some threads here or online of people HATING on the games for being fantasy??? like i dont understand if you hate these games you can just play the historical ones or am i missing something?
EDIT: i am not making general claims about EVERY historical fan just the ones i have seen complaining about the game

[AigledeFeu[N7]]

Loving both, but still have a preference for Warhammer since gameplay and graphics are more modern.

Man, i would really love Total War Shogun 3......

[Apollyon]

Publicado originalmente por AigledeFeuN7:

Loving both, but still have a preference for Warhammer since gameplay and graphics are more modern.

Man, i would really love Total War Shogun 3......

As much hype as a Medieval 3 or Shogun 3 would give me, the harsh reality is that CA could never make either of those games good. This is why I'd rather have CA spread themselves thin with Warhammer until they inevitably go out of business. Someone competent can then take over the Total War IP and potentially give us the Medieval 3 or Shogun 3 that we deserve.

[Da_Higg]

Publicado originalmente por lumina:

Plus they've changed/removed dozens of other things over the years. Naval battles. Size of settlement battles. Sieges altogether different now. Formations. Moving armies without lords. So many things have changed over the years, and players liked a lot of them.

The problem is, players don't give CA positive feed back about current mechanics that they like, it's just ♥♥♥♥♥, whine & moan 24/7. Of course CA is going to drop features if they don't think people enjoy them.

So if you like a mechanic in the game say something about it. Show CA what parts they need to keep doing to encourage them to make the games better.

[SpiffyGonzales]

Publicado originalmente por Da_Higg:

Publicado originalmente por lumina:

Plus they've changed/removed dozens of other things over the years. Naval battles. Size of settlement battles. Sieges altogether different now. Formations. Moving armies without lords. So many things have changed over the years, and players liked a lot of them.

The problem is, players don't give CA positive feed back about current mechanics that they like, it's just ♥♥♥♥♥, whine & moan 24/7. Of course CA is going to drop features if they don't think people enjoy them.

So if you like a mechanic in the game say something about it. Show CA what parts they need to keep doing to encourage them to make the games better.

Yea no. The constant positive feedback is exactly what allowed CA to do this.

[Velber]

Publicado originalmente por Superbia:

Funnily enough, as a historical TW fan myself, I hate Warhammer a lot less than I hated Rome 2, Pharaoh and the rest of the garbage titles that have come out of CA in recent years. Historical Total War died with Shogun 2 imo and I'm not very confident there will ever be a resurrection for it, which is why I'm currently fine with them delving into fantasy.

That said, my personal hope is that CA will soon be out of business, so a more competent developer can pick up the Total War IP and do some quality stuff with it in the future,

if CA went out of buisness, nobody would pick up total war, because theyd see the financial cost for all of it and the returns and say "hell no thats not worth it"

[Velber]

Publicado originalmente por SpiffyGonzales:

Publicado originalmente por Da_Higg:

The problem is, players don't give CA positive feed back about current mechanics that they like, it's just ♥♥♥♥♥, whine & moan 24/7. Of course CA is going to drop features if they don't think people enjoy them.

So if you like a mechanic in the game say something about it. Show CA what parts they need to keep doing to encourage them to make the games better.

Yea no. The constant positive feedback is exactly what allowed CA to do this.

lol what constant positive feedback
theres more complaints on here than users, especially since rome 2

[Apollyon]

Publicado originalmente por Velber:

if CA went out of buisness, nobody would pick up total war, because theyd see the financial cost for all of it and the returns and say "hell no thats not worth it"

I disagree, SEGA could easily find someone competent to take over Total War. And if not, well, it would be better for the series to die than to remain in greedy mediocrity.

[Ashley]

It's not going to change as long as it's very profitable

If you didn't know Sega stock has been garbage for years and they've been on their back foot for years. Their stock price has been almost half it's high from 13 years ago. They're not going to be pulling back monetization especially with their stock on somewhat of a recovery.

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

It never ceases to amuse me, to see people actually think the owners of the Sonic Franchise would pull the plug on Total War or, in this case, give it to somebody other than CA because the last few games weren't good.

[killtastic201]

its pretty obvious isn't it? total warhammer came along and unleashed a torrent of money for creative assembly. naturally companies follow the money, so all the resources and talent creative assembly had went towards pumping the new fountain of money that was total war fantasy. this left the historical community that wasn't interested in fantasy with table scraps at best, and nothing at worst. it was a pretty sudden, and jarring turn for the company, that makes perfect business sense. even as a fantasy fan I empathize with historical fans because I have been on the other end of this sort of sudden company wide pivot when in other communities. I know exactly how it feels to be left in the dust, and its so incredibly frustrating to have money in your pocket for a game that just isn't going to be made anymore, because this other game that makes more money could also be made. Thats exactly how companies look at it too. "we could make X game, with X projected sales, or Y game with Y projected sales. what project here looks more profitable???".. reasonably creative assembly could attempt to outsource their historical IP to a different studio with different resources, to try to please historical fans, but that comes with trade offs. there aren't unlimited companies out there that make good RTS games, that have experienced devs willing to learn an entirely new engine, that are also going to offer you a good deal, AND make a profitable game that wont damage the brand.. they could SELL their rights to make historical IP's for a short term cash boost but that is really really risky. if for some reason the warhammer total war fantasy money fountain dries up, they could be in a really difficult spot if they sell off the rights to make historical games entirely. maybe one could hope that another company emerges and makes something like a spiritual successor to historical total war games that can scratch your itch. yet this too is unlikely because total war runs off a specialized engine, meaning that you'd either have to hopefully find a existing engine that can do it, or you have to first build your own in house engine, and then a game series ontop of it, just to make this specific style of game, and also make it different enough that CA doesn't sue you... all for the hope that this particular game gets picked up by the derilect historical community, so that for all this risk, you can actually make enough money to not only keep the lights on, but to fund DLC, and sequels... Pulling something like that off would require tons of talent, passion, and extremely high tolerance for risk...

TLDR: The historical community feels utterly forgotten about, and there are literally no good solutions besides hoping creative assembly manages to make a actually GOOD historical title, instead of a debacle like pharaoh, which seems unlikely in the short term because of how incredibly risk averse, and resource short they are after the hyenas disaster. sega came down really really hard on creative assembly, and they essentially can't afford another blunder because it's very likely that one more blunder would mean that SEGA would kill the studio, or relegate them to developing mobile slop game titles for quick profits. Sega really doesn't mess around, when a studio goes bad, SEGA is willing to roll out the guillotine pretty fast...

[Aleera]

Publicado originalmente por killtastic201:

TLDR: The historical community feels utterly forgotten about.

Then the small part of the historical community is acting whiny.

between Total war 2 and 3, Historical has had THREE full historical titles released, with another pretty damn good game released after Total War 3 it's launch.

They don't want a good game, they want Medieval 3, if they wanted a good game they'd be playing Pharaoh.

Because no, Medieval 2 was not a good game either, it was mediocre. But they have rose-tinted glasses and they remember the game from their childhood and all the good memories of being a kid and playing the game.

[Kalvix]

Publicado originalmente por the wrinkly darth:

like i find some threads here or online of people HATING on the games for being fantasy??? like i dont understand if you hate these games you can just play the historical ones or am i missing something?
EDIT: i am not making general claims about EVERY historical fan just the ones i have seen complaining about the game

Most probably don't hate the game itself, they just prefer to play through history over fantasy, which is fair. I can imagine some are getting tired of how there hasn't been a decent historical game in like a decade though, and this is coming from somebody who loves the Warhammer TW series.

[IonizedMercury]

I don't dislike Warhammer Total War. I dislike CA dumbing it down and turning it into a lame mobile gacha game that requires zero thought and strategy just to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[SpiffyGonzales]

Publicado originalmente por Velber:

Publicado originalmente por SpiffyGonzales:

Yea no. The constant positive feedback is exactly what allowed CA to do this.

lol what constant positive feedback
theres more complaints on here than users, especially since rome 2

The constant positive feedback from the youtubers who constantly insist that every little thing CA ever does is good, downplaying the old school historical fan grievences as nothing more than either rose tinted glasses or trolls hating for no reason, and only ever admitting CA messed up when the fans have already overwhelmingly come to that conclusion so that they can seem like they're just like the fans when in reality they are nothing more than unpaid advertising.

Great Book of Grudges. Loremaster of sotek, andys take, colenal damders, zerkovich, and TheTerminator just to name a few. Theres like friggin 20 of them. A mixture of people who shill and warhammer fanboys who refuse to see just how dumbed down total war has gotten.

And alongside them the warhammer fans themselves who only got into the series with games like warhammer and dont know justhow far gone it is from the old total wars because theyve never seriously played them, and tout "unit diversity" as somehow being greater in warhammer despite the units in older total wars actually being able to do more and fulfilling more specialized roles.

I dont hate warhamer, i hate the fact that it and the fanbase it spawned killed off the older total wars.

[I LIVE AGAIN]

historical fans like who? that 2 youtubers legendoftotalwar had a video with? that's pretty much a whole fanbase of these games.