why do historical total war fans HATE total war warhammer?

[pikathulhu]

like i find some threads here or online of people HATING on the games for being fantasy??? like i dont understand if you hate these games you can just play the historical ones or am i missing something?
EDIT: i am not making general claims about EVERY historical fan just the ones i have seen complaining about the game

[Enelith]

Don't make it a general case....
I like historical titles, and I also like Warhammer, so it's all win as far as I'm concerned...

If you find people who don't like it, then it's like asking why they like icecream (to each their own taste).

[Driss]

We dont

[Faptor]

Its because Warhammer takes away from potential historical titles that could of been produced instead. Another big worry was all the unrealistic stuff creeping its way into historical titles (LL's that never die and cant have family's to succeed them and stuff etc etc) like, the historical titles would be cheapened by adopting some of WH's mechanics.

Idk, I love both but thats just the arguments I remember reading. I feel where historical purists are coming from, though. I dont like things that I love getting changed or going in directions I dont like.

[identity]

Mostly nonsense.

[Bloodwyrm Wildheart]

Originally posted by the wrinkly darth:

HATING on the games for being fantasy???

Originally posted by Faptor:

Its because Warhammer takes away from potential historical titles that could of been produced instead.

It's about the game's quality, not its setting. Why is this so hard to understand?
This conversation has been done to death anyway. People who don't want to argue in good faith will continue to strawman like this regardless. It's moot.

[Eldi]

Some hate how it is dumbed down in areas. (Which it is, it's a different beast)
Some just can't comprehend a game isn't made for them..

[pikathulhu]

Originally posted by Bloodwyrm Wildheart:

Originally posted by the wrinkly darth:

HATING on the games for being fantasy???

Originally posted by Faptor:

Its because Warhammer takes away from potential historical titles that could of been produced instead.

It's about the game's quality, not its setting. Why is this so hard to understand?
This conversation has been done to death anyway. People who don't want to argue in good faith will continue to strawman like this regardless. It's moot.

i had no clue this has been talked to death lol, so oops

[Dr. Uncredible]

The number of people who fit into the category you mention is tiny, this conflict is not actually real.
A large number of historical fans miss some of the complexity that existed in earlier historical titles that are absent in TWW (for good reasons).

[pikathulhu]

Originally posted by Dr. Uncredible:

The number of people who fit into the category you mention is tiny, this conflict is not actually real.
A large number of historical fans miss some of the complexity that existed in earlier historical titles that are absent in TWW (for good reasons).

im guessing the good reason is that it would be a pain to code for tons of different factions? and different models etc

[StrangestEcho]

Originally posted by the wrinkly darth:

im guessing the good reason is that it would be a pain to code for tons of different factions? and different models etc

It's more that those mechanics would be impossible to balance in this setting. You used to be able to instantly shatter a unit by charging them with cavalry, for example. In WH3 the unit will temporarily flee, or even fight to the death.

[minecraft with gadget]

I don't hate the warhammer games, if anything while I don't like warhammer itself I'm glad to have a fantasy total war that actually works. The next closest thing are M2 mods but with those you have to put up with an ancient engine and AI that's so dumb it makes TWH's look like skynet, and the only challenge comes from scripts that give them multiple stacks of elite units in the early game (cough DAC cough).

[Ashley]

Originally posted by Bloodwyrm Wildheart:

Originally posted by the wrinkly darth:

HATING on the games for being fantasy???

Originally posted by Faptor:

Its because Warhammer takes away from potential historical titles that could of been produced instead.

It's about the game's quality, not its setting. Why is this so hard to understand?
This conversation has been done to death anyway. People who don't want to argue in good faith will continue to strawman like this regardless. It's moot.

Except people have made threads claiming they hate fantasy and only want historical

So that kinda throws that out the window

[Wubbinz]

They think this has robbed the series of its "depth" but I don't see the difference between Warhammer, Rome 2 and Shogun 2. I just don't think Total War is a strategy series with much depth. It is what it is.

[Dr. Uncredible]

Originally posted by the wrinkly darth:

Originally posted by Dr. Uncredible:

The number of people who fit into the category you mention is tiny, this conflict is not actually real.
A large number of historical fans miss some of the complexity that existed in earlier historical titles that are absent in TWW (for good reasons).

im guessing the good reason is that it would be a pain to code for tons of different factions? and different models etc

Aye, and stuff like inheritance of positions would only work for a few races since most are either immortal, near-immortal or lack the concept of family, naval battles would only be possible/make sense for a handful of races, matched combat would be a nightmare to code with all different possible soldier sizes and shapes.
Stuff like that.

[kilen]

Everyone has his own opinion, it’s absolutely not a generality.
I play since Rome 1, back in 2004-2005 or something and I remember I have been quite pissed when they made Warhammer 1 and I never played it.
I also was disappointed with 3 Kingdoms where one general can basically take an entire army by himself back in the days, it was immersion breaking, I hated it.
I used to be a pro historical at that point in time…

And yet it changed after WH2, now it’s the opposite, I couldn’t restart playing historical TW such as it feels basic and empty in comparison.
Only started warhammer 2 around 2018 and immediately felt in love with it.
It’s just multidimensional in battle, there are a lot more content, etc… it’s just better gameplay wise.
Magic, air forces & ranged units are well implemented and it’s a lot more interesting than any historical can be.
Although balancing and bug fixes is a constant requirement ofc, but when it works as it should, it’s so much better than what historical TWs were before that.

So, everyone has his own experience.
I can understand the “purists” mindset, I have been there.
But objectively since, when you play WHTW, it’s just impossible to not compare both on the entertainment side of things...
And there warhammer TW has way more to offer than any historical can do, I never have been able to enjoy playing back historical TWs like Shogun 2, Rome 1&2, Empire 1 or medieval 2 after I dived deep into warhammer 2.
It’s feels so much more simplicist in historical TWs unfortunately…

Now I just hope CA gonna make WH40k TW and boost the gameplay up to the next level.
40k has way more potential lorewise & gameplay wise than warhammer fantasy has, so it’s not even comparable for historical TWs sadly…
It’s a no brainier for me,
fantasy/warhammer TW won the race by a long mile against historical, even if I went to TW for the historical games (which were great back in the days ofc !).
But compared to what warhammer can offer to TW genre, historical cannot compete, period.

I wouldnt mind an Empire 2 or a Medieval 3 ofc, but I also would gladly exchange these 2 titles for a warhammer 40k TW with DLCs and updates during 10-12years, following what they did with warhammer fantasy.
It’s just objectively better and more dense/thick/complex, with way more lore and factions/gameplay etc etc.
People despising warhammer TW for historical TWs never truly dived into imo. cuz if they had, they would have gone the same way I did, reached the same conclusion, and changed their mind as I did…
warhammer TW is a lot more fun and complex than any historical can be.
It’s objectively the logical conclusion to reach imo, that’s it. 🤷🏼