Current Karl franz faction is completely broken.

[EastCLiff]

Didn't play much before WH3 and don't know how it was but many things of Karl is very toxic and stressful while it is not fun and requires luck on some kind of randomness. Starting rebels are cancer because of garrison turtling and early beastman rush within 10 turn on Altdorf. When I use 'remove supply line' mod, Marienburg declare war faster than beastman rush with 2~3 outriders and mortar team. What the F is going on Karl's city. I don't hate multiple invasion of Chaos, norsca, etc on the empire region through entire campaign but this starting condition is very annoying. I just have to rely on randomness not techniques to solve early turn threats.

Army roster is also broken after IE updates. Actually, I think it is complicated to explain because many issues are connected with each other but essential problem is seemed to be two issues, lack of troubleshooter unit and broken state troop system.

I usually played VC and DE much before WH3 with dipping the empire and HE a little. I don't know much about balance changes on IE but it looks like ranged damages of archer classes are nerfed a little and armor efficiency is reduced. So GS and ranged units are indirectly nerfed while GS got production time buff. Because of these changes, empire frontline became more fragile I think. At least, empire is now getting hard time to take down enemies before contact. I think current style is better than before but lack of flexibility of empire, inefficient frontline tactics are making the game boring and annoying. I played much VC on WH2 and now the empire has similar problems VC got before IE balance patch. Lack of choice on armor piercing unit is one of them. Current roster is too much dependent on GS and demigryph for AP damage and cheesy tactics with ranged for heroic plays(ex, arty + ranged spam with one man decoy). Using gunnery units is too complicated and not efficient now because of line of fire and AI problems.

I think state troop system must support "not flexible" roster while the game and many guide website is talking "the empire is flexible" but state troop system is not making up this situation. Many state troops are too expensive while they are not strong enough. Also, employment cap is funny joke. "1/1 unit cap with 10~15 turns for recharge" it's completely nonsense. Sword of Ulric(swordsman+frenzy) is having same upkeep of GS. BShit. There are many units lacking tactical purposes. Many of them are having twice upkeep of original one but additional features are very useless for their costs. Because of armor piercing issues at the late game, many low tier units are ignored and state troop system is not supplementing this problem and trolling to player. I think it must be changed entirely. There are some good units but there is still problems of complicated conditions to achieve them.

[The Void Boy]

The thing about the Empire is: they’ve always been one of the best multiplayer factions and one of the worst single player factions. The Empire is incredibly cost-effective and flexible in multiplayer because they have cheap tier 1 & 2 units for almost any situation. Their problem in campaign is they really lack powerful tier 3 units.

Let’s say the Empire is fighting Lizardmen. In multiplayer, the Lizardmen need to spend a lot of their money to bring a stegadon, the Empire can cheaply counter with 2 huntsmen or 2 handgunners and win by outspending the Lizardmen everywhere else. But, in campaign the army costs are never even. So the Lizardmen can bring 12 stegadons if they want. The Empire doesn’t have an answer to this besides bringing multiple stacks to auto-resolve.


Pretty much every Empire player uses mods that add in units to make the Empire viable. There’s no shame in it.

[Pawulon]

Yeah empire SUCKS. Thats why im using mods. But still CA should fix them a bit

[EastCLiff]

Originally posted by The Void Boy:

The thing about the Empire is: they’ve always been one of the best multiplayer factions and one of the worst single player factions. The Empire is incredibly cost-effective and flexible in multiplayer because they have cheap tier 1 & 2 units for almost any situation. Their problem in campaign is they really lack powerful tier 3 units.

Let’s say the Empire is fighting Lizardmen. In multiplayer, the Lizardmen need to spend a lot of their money to bring a stegadon, the Empire can cheaply counter with 2 huntsmen or 2 handgunners and win by outspending the Lizardmen everywhere else. But, in campaign the army costs are never even. So the Lizardmen can bring 12 stegadons if they want. The Empire doesn’t have an answer to this besides bringing multiple stacks to auto-resolve.


Pretty much every Empire player uses mods that add in units to make the Empire viable. There’s no shame in it.

I didn't play multiplay but I want to say the faction itself is too dependent on situation and conditions of battle, not talking about counter tactics, etc. Balance of roster and play style is very extreme IMO. I hate styles like this on other games too. I recently begin to focus on the empire but can't understand why roster quality is so poor. There are many units but many of them are useless and some are complicated to use properly.

[kamikharzeeh]

empire actually was and is quite good to play on wh2, but wh3 one is fully messed up, ye

u even forgot some enemies. randomly wood elves, grom le paunch, festus, (if u didn't +1 them on turn1: wissenland), karak zifflin or kemmler's scampires .. may declare war on you within the first 20-30 turns

i think marienburg isn't directly a problem compared to a flood of many others. like, u ideally want marienburg's settlement as early as possible anyways, so better they declare war early and leave u the option to yoink it, before they can amass too big defenses

____
outside of all that, empire very likely will get some DLC soonish, around max 6 months time. my guess is Kurt Helborg, maybe some FLC of Middenland, as it has shown in the past to have many fanbois. and maybe finally Ludwig Schwarzhelm as legendary hero

maybe some empire VS norsca DLC

(i'd guess some DLC with chaos stunties comes before that tho)

[VoiD]

I think they will end up having to sort of overhaul the overhauled empire mechanics again for WH3, even if just a little.

[Ashley]

Originally posted by kamikharzeeh:

empire actually was and is quite good to play on wh2, but wh3 one is fully messed up, ye

u even forgot some enemies. randomly wood elves, grom le paunch, festus, (if u didn't +1 them on turn1: wissenland), karak zifflin or kemmler's scampires .. may declare war on you within the first 20-30 turns

i think marienburg isn't directly a problem compared to a flood of many others. like, u ideally want marienburg's settlement as early as possible anyways, so better they declare war early and leave u the option to yoink it, before they can amass too big defenses

____
outside of all that, empire very likely will get some DLC soonish, around max 6 months time. my guess is Kurt Helborg, maybe some FLC of Middenland, as it has shown in the past to have many fanbois. and maybe finally Ludwig Schwarzhelm as legendary hero

maybe some empire VS norsca DLC

(i'd guess some DLC with chaos stunties comes before that tho)

Pretty much none of the AI's you mentioned were threats at all. Empire was braindead easy.

[Inardesco]

Originally posted by EastCLiff:

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Oh look, another Empire player whining about having to do something

Oh look, another vermintide. I think you got wrong forum.

I dont even own that game.

What I do own, is all those factions you deem so difficult playing as Franz.

Empire still easy lol.

Just cuz you now have to put in some minimal effort to obtain said easy game, doesnt mean the faction is broken.

[restarter]

Empire. Is. A. Starter. Faction. Why is this fact not being comprehended?
I mean its recommended as a good starter faction so its difficulty should mirror that. I first played Empire and found that within the first 10 turns I was getting overwhelmed by stacks before I even had a chance to really learn the ropes and deal with teh rebels. That's fine for a difficult faction but that is not the intent of the game. This is not how Total War games operate. I've been playing since Medieval so I'm experienced with the games mechanics.

I started a campaign as Cathay the northern province or whatever its called and it seems more in line with traditional form that Total War starter factions play. You knock off some rebels to get some towns and you learn how the armies work. You get some income and then you start to tackle more difficult scenarios.

Some folks are claiming "you jsut have to play it this certain way or you have to put some effort into it blah blah blah" Sure if you start over a few times and know what to expect then it becomes easier but that is not how a "starting faction" should play. There are more and more threads coming out about this faction alone. I don't think that its unreasonable to claim that the Empire is borked ATM and It definitely needs some balancing.
"git gud" statements are useless and baseless and nobody cares about your epeen

[Gnarl]

I played some Normal/Normal Franz with 200% difficulty Ultimate End Game scenarios all going off at turn 13. It's pretty tough. I'm at like turn 70, and so much dwarves and Kemmler to fight. But I like that Franz isn't that great on his own, he has to fight smart.

Reiksguard landmark building seems to be his big go to, but not sure how to really round them out for easy AR wins even on normal. There's just so many dwarves rushing in.

I'd have Marienberg be confederable. All the empire factions are supposed to be diverse cultures with their own industries and local religions. Other than that, I don't know, other factions are making vassals left and right, Franz has to slow build, which is fine for me, but it could be cool to have a different LL from the Empire start in Altdorf and maybe be more streamlined. Like one of the old emperors maybe.

[EastCLiff]

Originally posted by restarter:

Empire. Is. A. Starter. Faction. Why is this fact not being comprehended?
I mean its recommended as a good starter faction so its difficulty should mirror that. I first played Empire and found that within the first 10 turns I was getting overwhelmed by stacks before I even had a chance to really learn the ropes and deal with teh rebels. That's fine for a difficult faction but that is not the intent of the game. This is not how Total War games operate. I've been playing since Medieval so I'm experienced with the games mechanics.

I started a campaign as Cathay the northern province or whatever its called and it seems more in line with traditional form that Total War starter factions play. You knock off some rebels to get some towns and you learn how the armies work. You get some income and then you start to tackle more difficult scenarios.

Some folks are claiming "you jsut have to play it this certain way or you have to put some effort into it blah blah blah" Sure if you start over a few times and know what to expect then it becomes easier but that is not how a "starting faction" should play. There are more and more threads coming out about this faction alone. I don't think that its unreasonable to claim that the Empire is borked ATM and It definitely needs some balancing.
"git gud" statements are useless and baseless and nobody cares about your epeen

Yes. I feel the empire, especially Karl Franz, is not recommended for starting faction. I also played Medieval and shogun 2 a little. But conditions, early threats and mechanics of Karl Franz is completely not for starter faction. While early game is not organized, entire play line is suitable for veteran players who know entire detailed game mechanics of total war series. I think currently Karl is one of the hardest faction in WH3 and many people in my country is talking similar opinions, though it could be not the hardest.

[VoiD]

Yeah I never really got that, Empire was never a "starter faction", CA even tried to push that Kislev was good for beginners in WH3, when it turns out it was the hardest faction in the game.

Having a simpler roster, or simpler mechanics is secondary, the starting situation is the most important thing, being surrounded by enemies isn't a good indication of a good starter faction.

[EastCLiff]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Yeah I never really got that, Empire was never a "starter faction", CA even tried to push that Kislev was good for beginners in WH3, when it turns out it was the hardest faction in the game.

Having a simpler roster, or simpler mechanics is secondary, the starting situation is the most important thing, being surrounded by enemies isn't a good indication of a good starter faction.

I didn't play Kislev yet but heard Bris is worse than Karl. AI katarin is always destroyed early. I don't understand why CA made like that.

[Zeek]

In the middle of a VH Franz game right now, my second attempt.

My first attempt, turn 10, Orion decides I'm his biggest threat and comes right over to Reikland with a full stack while I'm in the middle of dealing with Khazrak and Festus up north. In game 2 the Wood elves would rarely declare war and even MORE rarely leave their forest to do anything about it, especially that early in the game with closer enemies. I kind of found this a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ so restarted.

Second attempt, still VH, and I'm doing much better now. No early Wood Elf invasion, in fact we have a NAP. Killed Khazrak about turn 12 and I just cleaned up the mess Festus made in the northern provinces. Vampires are starting to eat away at the eastern provinces so they are my next priority.

Perhaps early game empire is a bit to reliant on what the AI does rather than what the player does. Kairos has a similar problem; tough start that is amplified by whether or not the AI collectively gangs up on you or not.

[The Void Boy]

Originally posted by Zeek:

In the middle of a VH Franz game right now, my second attempt.

My first attempt, turn 10, Orion decides I'm his biggest threat and com. Ines right over to Reikland with a full stack while I'm in the middle of dealing with Khazrak and Festus up north. In game 2 the Wood elves would rarely declare war and even MORE rarely leave their forest to do anything about it, especially that early in the game with closer enemies. I kind of found this a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ so restarted.

Second attempt, still VH, and I'm doing much better now. No early Wood Elf invasion, in fact we have a NAP. Killed Khazrak about turn 12 and I just cleaned up the mess Festus made in the northern provinces. Vampires are starting to eat away at the eastern provinces so they are my next priority.

Perhaps early game empire is a bit to reliant on what the AI does rather than what the player does. Kairos has a similar problem; tough start that is amplified by whether or not the AI collectively gangs up on you or not.

yeah I've had some trouble with Tree Hitler recently too. In my most recent game he decided to attack Wissenland instead of me, so it worked out.

[Kratzramanis]

the beastman rush in the first turns is a joke, only tier 1 units.... played on hard/normal Franz, Wulfahrt and Volkmar, empire is very op.
The only thing is the bad reputation u get from killing the rebels for some bretonnian factions.
And the conditions to get "good units" arent rly complicated, if u mean the elector units.
so i have to say sry, but u are wrong with ur "completely broken" statement.