WoC feedback since immortal empires updates:

[Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK)]

- Overall the rework is decent....but
- In the campaign you should be able to recruit marked chaos lords with their respective LL's factions eg a nurgle marked lord with Festus or a khorne marked lord with valkia the bloody. This wold add more variety to each 'subfaction' that they decsrive in the patch notes.
- Can't reawaken norscan tribes after they are dead. This was a feature before, I think, but cut content.
- Can't vassal wintertooth or world wanderer's (Norsca factions), possibly intentional, but not well explained in game UI.
- UI tells you that you can make dark fortesses in te south when you often can't. Get ready to load your saves unless you're legendary. If so, tough luck kid.
- Choas god gifts (from acquired souls) don't apply to loaned armies from allies. Have fun commanding substandard vassal armies. At least they don't cost chaos money (because the love of the gods can and will be quantifiable).
- Undivided troops, especially at low tier are just plain worse in every way. The only reason to keep them is that they are cheaper to maintain. Chaos undivided = poundland/wallmart option it seems. Some units for marauders/chaos warriors are just plain better than others. Best ones are khorne marauders w/ dual weapons and Tzeentch chaos warriors w/ halberds.
:/ Nice to have all the other options though, ultimately end up just taking what's actually good mostly.
- Warband upgrades/recruitment are awesome, not much to say about that, want more cool mechanics like that.

8/10 good could be better if these issues are fixed during the BETA (not too hopeful)

[IonizedMercury]

Originally posted by Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK):

- Undivided troops, especially at low tier are just plain worse in every way. The only reason to keep them is that they are cheaper to maintain. Chaos undivided = poundland/wallmart option it seems. Some units for marauders/chaos warriors are just plain better than others. Best ones are khorne marauders w/ dual weapons and Tzeentch chaos warriors w/ halberds.

Well, that's actually wrong. Marks of Nurgle and Khorne make your troops overall weaker while Slaanesh is the factually best mark to put on your units because CA for whatever reasons loaded it up with so many advantages far beyond of what it did on the TT. Tzeentch's mark is also OK in some cases, especially for ranged units, but CA badly needs to have a balance pass here because it can't be that one mark is objectively far superior than all alternatives.

[Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK)]

Originally posted by PMarricks:

Originally posted by Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK):

- Undivided troops, especially at low tier are just plain worse in every way. The only reason to keep them is that they are cheaper to maintain. Chaos undivided = poundland/wallmart option it seems. Some units for marauders/chaos warriors are just plain better than others. Best ones are khorne marauders w/ dual weapons and Tzeentch chaos warriors w/ halberds.

Well, that's actually wrong. Marks of Nurgle and Khorne make your troops overall weaker while Slaanesh is the factually best mark to put on your units because CA for whatever reasons loaded it up with so many advantages far beyond of what it did on the TT. Tzeentch's mark is also OK in some cases, especially for ranged units, but CA badly needs to have a balance pass here because it can't be that one mark is objectively far superior than all alternatives.

So you read that on the interwebs on reddit? doesn't seem like you have actually tested the variants much, they are definitely upgrades to varying degrees. Nurgle and khorne get decent attack, health and defence buffs at the cost of less important attributes. But as I said these buffs shine from particular unit variants such as marauders of khorne (bonus vs infantry, which works vs 70-80% of the units you will fight in melee)) and tzeentch chaos warriors w/ halberds (more resilient catch al unit that does well in most situations). So, looking at each mark in isolation to how it affects each unit means that you will mis-assess things.

Also the slaanesh boost is best on paper (10% physical resist and immune to psychology Better charges for cav) but in reality they only really shine in the multiplayer game. This is because their tier 1/2 units aren't that great (no bonus vs infantry or bonus vs large at all). Instead, they try to be a catch all type of unit, but are actually suboptimal in most situations. As i said specialising your units with the other gods will get much better results in battle overall. Granted immune to psychology is nice, but that doesn't actually apply much in most campaign battles. So I’d suggest testing the khorne and tzeentch variants before jumping to conclusions (judging by your other post you do this too often). Overall, Nurgle is the weakest of the four, their units should really be more unique (slower, but with more health and perhaps missile resistance). This is the fault of the mark of nurgle that is only a fairly minor improvement on undivided troops. Luckily festus has other buffs (poxes etc) that make his units stronger, but this leaves them in an awkward place in multiplayer games, especially domination mode where their slowness and lack of punch often leaves them floundering. As for undivided units, a decent leadership boost to all units (say +10) would encourage people to keep these units a bit longer. Imo the dedicated god lords (not arachaon, belakor) shouldn't be able to use undivided units or perhaps should have an undivided authority penalty of 2/3 to make them more costly. As I mentioned before, giving them access to god marked lords on turn 1 would give them a nice boost and make them seem more distinct from each other (better replay-ability) and from undivded LL's.

[IonizedMercury]

Originally posted by Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK):

So you read that on the interwebs on reddit?

No, I tried them out myself, but thanks for the condescension and patronizing tone, bud. Immediately puts me off debating this further with you.

[Castiell]

They garbage as the whole IE for today. EOT.

[Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK)]

Originally posted by PMarricks:

Originally posted by Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK):

So you read that on the interwebs on reddit?

No, I tried them out myself, but thanks for the condescension and patronizing tone, bud.

Haters gonna hate I guess.. If you're looking for agreement on this forum you've come to the wrong place, bud.

[Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK)]

Originally posted by Castiell:

They garbage as the whole IE for today. EOT.

What's EOT?

[The Sand Witch]

what the heck...

With nurgle u lose speed
With khorne u lose defense
With tzeentch u lose nothing and gain barrier and magical attack which are situationally good or nothing at all
With slaanesh u lose nothing and gain:
speed, itp, strider, physical res

each mark costs the same but they are not on the same level at all, with slaanesh being ridiculous.

besides, you did not mention khorne warriors w/ halberds which are godlike but you mention tzeentch chaos warriors w/ halberds. and then you instantly textwall some random paranoid blabla for no reason.

Nice farting thread, should go a long way.

[Ashardalon]

the reawakening tribes was removed because they found the vassal everyone option too powerful
so thats double stupid
vassalizing lizardmen instead of having savages come out of hiding now the world is in their favor is the worst way to make this work

dark fortress placement is just abysmal
you have all the economy that you need in the north
so why does chaos want to head south
fortresses should be in enemy faction capitols or places of significance
the great tree? burn it down and build a fortress on the sacrifice to the gods, throne of asuryan, burn the divine flame and build a fortress, flame of ulric, imprison the god and build a fortress, black pyramid black fortress
there is no reason now or chaos to want to go south and conquer because there is nothing to gain

there is a reasonable amount of early game cheap buffs to undivided, but yes by mid game you should all be marked

i dont see why tzeentch warriors are in any way good
less hp buff then nurgle and your not going to have the speed to recover, but magic attacks make them good fighting ghosts i guess
or is ti the halbert, its probably the halbert that is better then th blessing of a god
tzeentch marauder horsemen are cool

[Commisar Jon Fuklaw]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

i dont see why tzeentch warriors are in any way good

Magic attacks is extremely strong now that magic resistance only affects spells. Barrier improves survivability in the early stages of a fight, which improves odds of winning that fight through more models remaining alive. Best anti-large infantry blocks in the game.
The list goes on...

[Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK)]

Originally posted by The Sand Witch:

what the heck...

With nurgle u lose speed
With khorne u lose defense
With tzeentch u lose nothing and gain barrier and magical attack which are situationally good or nothing at all
With slaanesh u lose nothing and gain:
speed, itp, strider, physical res

each mark costs the same but they are not on the same level at all, with slaanesh being ridiculous.

besides, you did not mention khorne warriors w/ halberds which are godlike but you mention tzeentch chaos warriors w/ halberds. and then you instantly textwall some random paranoid blabla for no reason.

Nice farting thread, should go a long way.

K, agree to disagree to agree to disagree

[The Sand Witch]

k. Except those are all facts.
Wanna try khorne CW w/ halberds vs tzeentch? go ahead, h2h or against large it matters not.

Only thing u can disagree with is whether they are "godlike" and this thread is a nice farting thread. Rest are just facts. There is nothing to agree on with facts.

[Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK)]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

the reawakening tribes was removed because they found the vassal everyone option too powerful
so thats double stupid
vassalizing lizardmen instead of having savages come out of hiding now the world is in their favor is the worst way to make this work

dark fortress placement is just abysmal
you have all the economy that you need in the north
so why does chaos want to head south
fortresses should be in enemy faction capitols or places of significance
the great tree? burn it down and build a fortress on the sacrifice to the gods, throne of asuryan, burn the divine flame and build a fortress, flame of ulric, imprison the god and build a fortress, black pyramid black fortress
there is no reason now or chaos to want to go south and conquer because there is nothing to gain

there is a reasonable amount of early game cheap buffs to undivided, but yes by mid game you should all be marked

i dont see why tzeentch warriors are in any way good
less hp buff then nurgle and your not going to have the speed to recover, but magic attacks make them good fighting ghosts i guess
or is ti the halbert, its probably the halbert that is better then th blessing of a god
tzeentch marauder horsemen are cool

Basically, tzeentch halderds have higher defence and 'overshield' Khorne halberds are more attack biased, which is counterintuitive because halberds to their best work in defence not attack. Tzeentch variant has 5 higher defence than the khorne one, making them tankier. (pick khorne's dual axe CW's insteadof halberds, they wreck everything except cav). Tzeencth's mark justsynergises quite well with that particular unit. tzeentch marauder spears are also 'quite good' at holding the line for the same reason. Then sweep in the flank with tzeentch's overshield cav and cycle charge with relative impunity.

[Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK)]

Originally posted by The Sand Witch:

k. Except those are all facts.
Wanna try khorne CW w/ halberds vs tzeentch? go ahead, h2h or against large it matters not.

Only thing u can disagree with is whether they are "godlike" and this thread is a nice farting thread. Rest are just facts. There is nothing to agree on with facts.

Except whether or not the facts are really facts and not just conjecture.

[The Sand Witch]

With nurgle u lose speed
With khorne u lose defense
With tzeentch u lose nothing and gain barrier and magical attack which are situationally good or nothing at all
With slaanesh u lose nothing and gain:
speed, itp, strider, physical res

each mark costs the same but they are not on the same level at all, with slaanesh being ridiculous.

tell me what's not factual there then.

[Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK)]

Originally posted by The Sand Witch:

With nurgle u lose speed
With khorne u lose defense
With tzeentch u lose nothing and gain barrier and magical attack which are situationally good or nothing at all
With slaanesh u lose nothing and gain:
speed, itp, strider, physical res

each mark costs the same but they are not on the same level at all, with slaanesh being ridiculous.

tell me what's not factual there then.

You are missing details, like the mark of khorne grants frenzy which gives huge stat buffs while active. This INCLUDES immune to psychology while the effect is active. If you have a lord with decent ledership buffs near your khorne troops they hardly ever rout (immune to psychology like slanesh) and will get a lot better DPS on their road to oblivion.

The defence they lose is more than compensated for by increased weapon damage, decent magic resistance, higher attack and a better set of weaponry (e.g double axes). Melee defence is one of the most important unit stats, but this is a very worth while trade.

Tzeentch barrier is actually very good, and as poster above said, it resists magic. recharges at a decent pace, obviously well suited to skirmishes tactics with their shielded marauder cav which are joint best with khorne's axe marauder cav. AS you say tzeentch doesn't have any maluses so thats just a win on every unit that has overshield really.

As you say slaneesh gain a lot from their mark, but their lower tier troops are honestly a bit lackluster. Their hellstriders really shine as a unit, but honestly statistically their infantry isn't that impressive. However, 10% physical resist is nice, but I would take the overhield over that buff any day of the week (blast through resistance with magic and other special attacks).

Nurgle is the weak link, their mark doesn't give them that much and their marauders and CWs are nothing to write home about. They are painfully slow, which always hurts and their increased toughness (health and better melee defence) doesn't really make up for that at the moment..