Grudge System

[Aralous]

Anyone else still not happy with how the new grudge system works? I know the game isnt entirely balanced around legendary, but 22k grudges on my 2nd age of reckoning is absolutely insane, especially when all nearby enemy armies and settlements are only worth 100-300 grudges. Then in the late game, it's still asking for ♥♥♥♥ ton of grudges even when there's basically no enemies left.

I feel like the amount of grudges required is a % of all available grudges on the map and not at all related to the actual player's situation. So if the dwarf AI factions perform badly, the grudge count gets inflated and becomes impossible for the player to make progress on.

I really think they should make a change that completing "x" amount of major grudges permanently starts the player at a higher level grudge tier. I also think that major grudges that require occupation of a non-dwarf hold region should count for if an ally occupies that region as well. I also believe there should be a hard cap on the amount of grudges required for the first 2 or 3 ages of reckoning so that it doesn't inflate to ridiculous numbers too early in the game.

The recent deeps patch did nothing to address player complaints with the age of reckoning system. The player is still punished if they dont play aggressively enough.

[Mooselager]

Dwarfs need yet another rework.
On my L/ VH campaign as Malakai I still couldn't get a shot at even remotely confeding the other LLs even when I got my long victory.
Have to cheese the grudges by making big armies & losing them to the enemy, & same with settlements so you get bigger grudge points.

[DarkFenix]

They don't need another rework, just rebalancing. Things like the cost of confederations are just insane. Even early on those costs are skyrocketing to 80k+, it's an impossible mechanic to engage with. The costs of those should be fixed in my opinion, even if it's something pretty high like 20k for each one, that's still a sensibly large price to need to build up.

Either that or there needs to be a serious look at how many grudges are on different things. It's ludicrous to look at a Skaven lord and see maybe 20 grudges on him. It's a Skaven, that fact alone should be worth a couple of hundred grudges based on historic actions of their race alone. All the traditional enemies of the Dwarf should be stacked high with grudges just by association. Just be entering the World's Edge Mountains an enemy should be incurring a grudge for every step he takes on Dawi land.

[Aralous]

Ya I wouldnt say another rework. The system is almost in a good place, it just feels like they didn't actually play test it for any meaningful amount of time. Definitely a good idea to make traditional dwarven enemies have a baseline grudge amount. I end up in wars against large skaven or greenskin factions that haven't already accrued many grudges, and then fight massive battles that get me less than 100 grudges. Legendary lords should count for even more.

[Frenker]

The basic idea of Grudges is just bad... So in my opinion no rework of this system will ever be good... That and the naked slayers(cos going to battle without armor is just retarded) are the reason why i prefer chaos dwarfs over normal ones. Sometimes lore is just bad.

Even the way better chaos dwarfs are not that great when it comes to basic idea of lore.

WHere in other games i always play dwarf/s in this game it's not happening and that just wrong Cos i'm the biggest fan of classic dwarfs and of old dwarfs from Norse mythology.

[Da_Higg]

You only need to get about 20% of the bar filled to avoid the penalties - you don't need to fill up the bar every time. I think CA only intended you to be able to fill the bar later in the game when you have multiple armies fighting on different fronts.

[The Grand Mugwump]

I do appreciate that the grudge confederation system lets us confederate factions that have been wiped out, but that also seems to be the only case when I can use it because their grudges struck count doesn't increase anymore. With how inefficiently the AI plays, it doesn't surprise me that they amass a colossal number of grudges from lost armies and settlements and then right a massive number of grudges when they turn around and retake what they lost with their LL.

It's a really weird system, because if we want lots of grudges, then we need to fail. An enemy needs to take some of our settlements, we need to lose some of our armies, etc. Otherwise we only get grudges from events or as the grudges slowly trickle in from the AI dwarfs failing for us against a race/faction. That's why I view it as a rebound mechanic. The times we can max out the grudge meter are usually after another faction has bloodied our nose.

[Frenker]

this whole system should be replaced but a mining system of some kind...

The main "thing" of dwarfs is not utilized at all.

Thematically i think deeps where a good step in the right direction.

[Frenker]

Publicado originalmente por Pookie101:

Publicado originalmente por Frenker:

The basic idea of Grudges is just bad... So in my opinion no rework of this system will ever be good... That and the naked slayers(cos going to battle without armor is just retarded) are the reason why i prefer chaos dwarfs over normal ones. Sometimes lore is just bad.

Even the way better chaos dwarfs are not that great when it comes to basic idea of lore.

WHere in other games i always play dwarf/s in this game it's not happening and that just wrong Cos i'm the biggest fan of classic dwarfs and of old dwarfs from Norse mythology.

Well the Slayers are deranged little nutters who want to die in battle so armour sort of defeats the whole purpose of the dying in battle thing haha

you can't fight if you are deranged so again bad lore... So even in best case IF some one points them to the right direction to fight, you still want them in armor so they last as long as possible even if they are just a meatshield.

Sometimes lore is just bad that's how it is i guess hehehehe

[Aralous]

Publicado originalmente por Da_Higg:

You only need to get about 20% of the bar filled to avoid the penalties - you don't need to fill up the bar every time. I think CA only intended you to be able to fill the bar later in the game when you have multiple armies fighting on different fronts.

Ya I don't expect to fill it up every time, but when just getting to the first tier requires about 5000 grudges and the factions I'm actually fighting barely reward any it becomes a huge hassle. In my campaign, my AoR required about 21-22k and I couldn't even get the first tier as the 3 different skaven factions I was fighting weren't worth anything. My next AoR required about 19,000 and I only barely managed to get the first tier because, again, my 3 skaven enemies weren't worth anything.

[Da_Higg]

Publicado originalmente por Aralous:

Ya I don't expect to fill it up every time, but when just getting to the first tier requires about 5000 grudges and the factions I'm actually fighting barely reward any it becomes a huge hassle. In my campaign, my AoR required about 21-22k and I couldn't even get the first tier as the 3 different skaven factions I was fighting weren't worth anything. My next AoR required about 19,000 and I only barely managed to get the first tier because, again, my 3 skaven enemies weren't worth anything.

It should be based on the total grudges of all neighbouring factions how many grudges did the factions you were not at war with have?

[pascal.difolco]

Played a Malakai campaign last week, Leg/VH, and was surprised how *easy* it was to get 100% or more - tho you have to properly optimize battles in the 30 first turns

Campaign lasted 90 turns (I stopped at Long Victory), and I had 100% grudges 5 times out of 6, with 90% at turn 60 when I didn't max out

I ended up with approx 100K grudges, 160 settlements approx, done half of the Legendary
Grudges, confeded all other LL except Grombrindal (but I easily could have done it) because it wasn't useful and would have costed me too much to maintain some armies on the New World (I already had around 20 to 25 armies...)
I played quite aggressively, targeted "Grudge rich" enemies but didn't "farm" grudges by voluntarily letting enemies take settlements , retake them, rince and repeat
Maybe Malakai has an early advantage because you can get around 1000 grudges on an event if you go to war vs Kostaltyn (all of Kostaltyn armies and settlements are worth more than 200 then)
So I suspect people having difficulty to get enough grudges aren't playing aggressively enough
May also be harder with Belegar that has a rather weak/slow start as well