I think I hate the Cult rework

[Yhvh10]

Okay before anyone strings me up, I want to clarify a couple things. First I am mainly talking about Slaanesh. And second, I'm not a huge fan of the old cult system, so I actually decided when I heard the cults in 5.2 were getting a rework, that I'd just back into the game with a nice game of N'Kari. I was 100% looking forward to this.

But after playing a bit, on turn 42 as I'm writing this, I think i legitimately hate it. And I want to explain why, though I'm not gonna write an essay. Just sharing my thoughts.

The old cult system was very simple and provided some very straightforward simple boons. It wasnt OP but it definitely was fun to utilize.

But now I'd almost argue the seduction system and the cult system is kinda pointless? The benefits the cults provide arent much better. Most of them cost devotees and are unsustainable with devotees. I was only able to afford them because of resource buildings and conquests and vassals. And theres only 1 building that adds to seductive influence, it only provides 2 seductive influence and costs 3 devotees a turn.

How are you even supposed to build up any level of influence with that? Especially now since cultist chains no longer really exist. Thats actually what pushed me over the edge to make this post, I decided to see what it would take to make a cultist. 1. It destroys the cult. 2. it costs alot of favor. and 3. .... ten turns to complete. This is in contrast to the old system which allowed you to chain cults and cultists and was actually useful.

I guess my main frustration is that at least for Slaanesh, the cults and seductive influence, two championship features of Slaanesh, have been reduced from being actual gameplay mechanics that you can levy to make your game easier, to now being basically gimmicks.

If I'm wrong, please dont be rude. I could easily be wrong. But if so, i'd like some help then and strategies to make it viable.

[MadArtillery]

Heard Slaanesh got the shortest of all ends of the stick with the rework for sure, not the first thread about this. But ya, not well thought out for them which is dissapointing, eventually slaanesh will be worth playing, maybe.

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by MadArtillery:

Heard Slaanesh got the shortest of all ends of the stick with the rework for sure, not the first thread about this. But ya, not well thought out for them which is dissapointing, eventually slaanesh will be worth playing, maybe.

I hope so. N'Kari is/was right up there with Archaeon and Bel'akor for me on Chaos Playthroughs so I really hope they change this around in the future.

Ideally a full Slaanesh DLC would be nice.

[Da_Higg]

I thought the cult magos spawning only destroyed the building, not the cult itself?

[Carog the Fat]

well Slaanesh cults were broken OP before so they were going to get worse, you can still build influence though through gifts and marks.

[jtordoff]

Originally posted by Da_Higg:

I thought the cult magos spawning only destroyed the building, not the cult itself?

You are correct, the building cost 500 initially and has a 90 visibility and a 300 gold maintenance, the upgrade takes 10 turns and cost 3000 gold for a grand total of 6500 gold. When set up in Tyrions capital making 4k+ generates 150ish+ per turn with two building slots.

The Old cult that made the magnus can now make that building chain again, becoming a magnus factory.

[jtordoff]

Originally posted by Yhvh10:

Okay before anyone strings me up, I want to clarify a couple things. First I am mainly talking about Slaanesh. And second, I'm not a huge fan of the old cult system, so I actually decided when I heard the cults in 5.2 were getting a rework, that I'd just back into the game with a nice game of N'Kari. I was 100% looking forward to this.

But after playing a bit, on turn 42 as I'm writing this, I think i legitimately hate it. And I want to explain why, though I'm not gonna write an essay. Just sharing my thoughts.

The old cult system was very simple and provided some very straightforward simple boons. It wasnt OP but it definitely was fun to utilize.

But now I'd almost argue the seduction system and the cult system is kinda pointless? The benefits the cults provide arent much better. Most of them cost devotees and are unsustainable with devotees. I was only able to afford them because of resource buildings and conquests and vassals. And theres only 1 building that adds to seductive influence, it only provides 2 seductive influence and costs 3 devotees a turn.

How are you even supposed to build up any level of influence with that? Especially now since cultist chains no longer really exist. Thats actually what pushed me over the edge to make this post, I decided to see what it would take to make a cultist. 1. It destroys the cult. 2. it costs alot of favor. and 3. .... ten turns to complete. This is in contrast to the old system which allowed you to chain cults and cultists and was actually useful.

I guess my main frustration is that at least for Slaanesh, the cults and seductive influence, two championship features of Slaanesh, have been reduced from being actual gameplay mechanics that you can levy to make your game easier, to now being basically gimmicks.

If I'm wrong, please dont be rude. I could easily be wrong. But if so, i'd like some help then and strategies to make it viable.

I can see putting the far right building (adds growth and control for owner) in friendly/vassal cities. The new system reduces the amount of cultists one can potentially have and the fruits of slaaneshi cults don't seem worth the effort

[Zeek]

Originally posted by Yhvh10:

But now I'd almost argue the seduction system and the cult system is kinda pointless?

I made a thread a few days ago about this exact topic with all of these points.

Imo, Slaanesh got boned (thematically fitting) with the new cults.

It exposes how the seduction mechanic was hard carried by the abuse of the old cult spam, making the entire mechanic almost unusable/not worth fling compared to just conquering.

I really hope in the slaanesh dlc they do something with seduction.

[jtordoff]

Originally posted by Zeek:

Originally posted by Yhvh10:

But now I'd almost argue the seduction system and the cult system is kinda pointless?

I made a thread a few days ago about this exact topic with all of these points.

Imo, Slaanesh got boned (thematically fitting) with the new cults.

It exposes how the seduction mechanic was hard carried by the abuse of the old cult spam, making the entire mechanic almost unusable/not worth fling compared to just conquering.

I really hope in the slaanesh dlc they do something with seduction.

Hopefully they can move N'kari somewhere else on the map for his rework, So sick of looking at spearman/archer spam.

[path2power]

Originally posted by jtordoff:

Originally posted by Zeek:

I made a thread a few days ago about this exact topic with all of these points.

Imo, Slaanesh got boned (thematically fitting) with the new cults.

It exposes how the seduction mechanic was hard carried by the abuse of the old cult spam, making the entire mechanic almost unusable/not worth fling compared to just conquering.

I really hope in the slaanesh dlc they do something with seduction.

Hopefully they can move N'kari somewhere else on the map for his rework, So sick of looking at spearman/archer spam.

thats the one thing the new cults fix, now after you use the 3 random cults button, you can teleport where you want Nkari to go, and hopefully you get something in Cathay. Unfortunately all elves and humans are archer and spear spam early game.

[Knutticus]

Anything longer than a couple of sentences I can't concentrate long enough to read.

[Zeek]

Originally posted by Knutticus:

Anything longer than a couple of sentences I can't concentrate long enough to read.

There's a TL;DR version second from last paragraph. It just isn't labeled as such:

"I guess my main frustration is that at least for Slaanesh, the cults and seductive influence, two championship features of Slaanesh, have been reduced from being actual gameplay mechanics that you can levy to make your game easier, to now being basically gimmicks."

[AurumHawke]

Originally posted by jtordoff:

Originally posted by Da_Higg:

I thought the cult magos spawning only destroyed the building, not the cult itself?

You are correct, the building cost 500 initially and has a 90 visibility and a 300 gold maintenance, the upgrade takes 10 turns and cost 3000 gold for a grand total of 6500 gold. When set up in Tyrions capital making 4k+ generates 150ish+ per turn with two building slots.

The Old cult that made the magnus can now make that building chain again, becoming a magnus factory.

There appears to be a bug where you get about 6000 back when the Magus spawns. Trying to confirm it, but it looks like a clear reason for random unexplained income I've seen.
The Magus Ritual is the one that's supposed to refund, not the Magus Spawn.


Since Slaanesh already had and used the Cults, instead of relying on random spawn in corruption, Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch got much more out of this than Slaanesh did.
Half of the buildings are still useless - Cultist chain-spawn being the clear winner of the old system, with the occasional Disciple Army (always 3 marauders, 2 daemonettes).

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Knutticus:

Anything longer than a couple of sentences I can't concentrate long enough to read.

I weep for the future of mankind.

[Talilover]

I didn't really play too much chaos before the patch (just a little bit of Slaanesh and Khorne) and I haven't played it post patch so kinda going off of second hand knowledge for the most part (did immediately abuse the infinite cults as Slaanesh tho)

Slaanesh definitely got done dirty ye, but felt like that was coming as soon as they said they would be "reworking the cults". Khorne cults, outside of an emergency eject for your faction leader, seemed utterly pointless tho so I understand the desire to want to do something with em.

I guess in short regardless of buff/ nerf I at least appreciate the effort to try and make them more interesting, because they really weren't, but I do get not liking the nerf that took away the only thing Slaanesh really had going for it

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by jtordoff:

Originally posted by Zeek:

I made a thread a few days ago about this exact topic with all of these points.

Imo, Slaanesh got boned (thematically fitting) with the new cults.

It exposes how the seduction mechanic was hard carried by the abuse of the old cult spam, making the entire mechanic almost unusable/not worth fling compared to just conquering.

I really hope in the slaanesh dlc they do something with seduction.

Hopefully they can move N'kari somewhere else on the map for his rework, So sick of looking at spearman/archer spam.

Is that a thing? Will Slaanesh/N'Kari be getting a rework at sometime?

Originally posted by Da_Higg:

I thought the cult magos spawning only destroyed the building, not the cult itself?

Yes. I apologize. I hadnt actually finished the 10 turn wait when I made this post and only then did I see that it doesnt destroy the cult, just the building.

Still though, with a +90 visibility... theres nothing you can do with the cult during that trip