A lore question: Beastmen and the chaos gods

[Falaris]

We have 4 beastlords, and 4 chaos gods, but while it would seem natural to have each beastlord 'dedicated' to one of the chaos gods all symmetrical like, it seems like Tzeentch has two (Morghur in the shape of change, Malagor the wizard) and Khorne has two (Khazrak the 'soldier' and Taurox the murderbrute.).

I would think a rabid beast would make perfect sense for nurgle, and a... yeah, you can figure the slaanesh one out yourself.

Are there missing beastlords? Are their priorities just skewed and they are unnaturally healthy? What's the story?

[Garatgh Deloi]

I'd argue that we have one Beastmen dedicated to a chaos god. That being Taurox.

The others are more undivided, heck i think Morghur eventually becomes something like a god for the beastmen in age of sigmar or something like that (i don't really have a good handle on AoS).

Admittedly Malagor with his crow and magic theme fits Tzeentch like a glove.

For a Nurgle themed lord we do have a lore candidate called Molokh Slugtongue:
https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slugtongue

(There is also one that seems Slaanesh themed called Ghorros Warhoof).

[Falaris]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

I'd argue that we have one Beastmen dedicated to a chaos god. That being Taurox.

The others are more undivided, heck i think Morghur eventually becomes something like a god for the beastmen in age of sigmar or something like that (i don't really have a good handle on AoS).

Admittedly Malagor with his crow and magic theme fits Tzeentch like a glove.

For a Nurgle themed lord we do have a lore candidate called Molokh Slugtongue:
https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slugtongue

(There is also one that seems Slaanesh themed called Ghorros Warhoof).

I agree that only Taurox is actively sworn to one, the rest just seems inclined/themed that way, but that's sort of what I was thinking of anyway.

Malagor could basically be the Norscans' Crowfather.

Molokh Slugtongue definitely sounds nurgly. Ghorros seems confirmed for TWWH when I look him up, but long ago, so ... probably not? Not sure. Still, thanks, this sort of stuff is what I was hoping for. :) Ghorros = Churros?

And... yeah, not interested in the AoS stuff. Really. I actually tried the Ruins game from last year... it is pretty enough and that's all I have to say about it, since it's polite to be quiet if you have noithing nice to say.

[TheAlmightyProo]

Originally posted by Falaris:

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

I'd argue that we have one Beastmen dedicated to a chaos god. That being Taurox.

The others are more undivided, heck i think Morghur eventually becomes something like a god for the beastmen in age of sigmar or something like that (i don't really have a good handle on AoS).

Admittedly Malagor with his crow and magic theme fits Tzeentch like a glove.

For a Nurgle themed lord we do have a lore candidate called Molokh Slugtongue:
https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slugtongue

(There is also one that seems Slaanesh themed called Ghorros Warhoof).

I agree that only Taurox is actively sworn to one, the rest just seems inclined/themed that way, but that's sort of what I was thinking of anyway.

Malagor could basically be the Norscans' Crowfather.

Molokh Slugtongue definitely sounds nurgly. Ghorros seems confirmed for TWWH when I look him up, but long ago, so ... probably not? Not sure. Still, thanks, this sort of stuff is what I was hoping for. :) Ghorros = Churros?

And... yeah, not interested in the AoS stuff. Really. I actually tried the Ruins game from last year... it is pretty enough and that's all I have to say about it, since it's polite to be quiet if you have noithing nice to say.

Kind of unnecessary/less necessary to have specifically Chaos god themed BM LL's imo. That more personality cult worship has always been much more a 'useful mouth', worthier cause, forces related to the potential Everchosen actually getting the world ended kind of deal. BM are the true og kids of Chaos but rarely more than cannon fodder for the big push.

That said, I've always thought much alike... Taurox is definitely Khorne-y, if little different from what you'd expect of a Minotaur/BM boss, Malagor could lean Tzeentch.
Likewise, Slugtongue has a certain Nurgle-ish touch, if not a direct hand in hard plaguery like Festus... Ghorros has the excess thing...
Yeah, in a scenario where the big four actually had to give a damn about, lean on more and support their BM I could see more specialisation. But as it is any attention tends to go to more permanent BM forces attached to major Chaos warlords, not the more local threat most BM bands present.

As for the AoS game... pretty and cool enough I guess. Kind of reminiscent of that medieval Dawn of War like... Ancestors Legacy, was it? Fair enough but not my best cuppa tbh.

[Zeek]

Originally posted by Falaris:

Are there missing beastlords? Are their priorities just skewed and they are unnaturally healthy? What's the story?

Slugtongue, Moonclaw.

Beastmen are pretty squarely in the Chaos Undivided camp. You can argue that Taurox, Slugtongue, Malagor and Ghorros are "mono-god leaning", but like someone above said BM are more of a cult of personality than "this guy loves khorne, this guy loves tzeentch" etc.

Beastmen follow the chaos pantheon as a whole and I think it pretty well shows that.

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by Falaris:

We have 4 beastlords, and 4 chaos gods, but while it would seem natural to have each beastlord 'dedicated' to one of the chaos gods all symmetrical like, it seems like...

Taurox is dedicated to Khorne, Others are undivided.

It is natural , that not all Chaos guys are dedicated to single Chaos god, but Chaos in general

[Old Captain Yon]

Beastmen in general worship undivided, and even have different god-flavoured variants of their troops in lore and tabletop (like tzaangors or slaangors). In TW however, it does seem that they are all Undivided, even Taurox who is kind of khorne-ish spreads undivided corruption.

"The true children of Chaos, Beastmen belong body and soul to the dark powers from their very birth. The Dark Gods have no need to woo Beastmen with divine gifts and offers of immortality, for the Beastmen instinctively serve Chaos with their bestial, violent nature. As such, the attention lavished on mortal humans (even those who have no wish for such attention!) by the Dark Gods causes the Beastmen to react with a jealous rage."

Unlike humans or elves, Beastmen are inherently chaotic, and for them there is no big deal who to worship - they are THE children of Chaos.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Lotor13:

Originally posted by Falaris:

We have 4 beastlords, and 4 chaos gods, but while it would seem natural to have each beastlord 'dedicated' to one of the chaos gods all symmetrical like, it seems like...

Taurox is dedicated to Khorne, Others are undivided.

It is natural , that not all Chaos guys are dedicated to single Chaos god, but Chaos in general

I thought Taurox only impressed Khorne, but not that Taurox worships Khorne.

[Falaris]

I did read that Beastmen thought of the various human chaos worshippers as the lesser followers, because they were in it for the gifts; beastmen were in it - period. They would probably be disgusted, to some extent, by Archaeon and his 'true' plan.

And yes, they are undivided but with .. .'directional leanings', let's say.

I suspect that, in a non-end times variant, quite a few chaos lords or followers would go 'hey, hold on, we don't want these guys to WIN, how do we get out of this???'.

[TheAlmightyProo]

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

Beastmen in general worship undivided, and even have different god-flavoured variants of their troops in lore and tabletop (like tzaangors or slaangors). In TW however, it does seem that they are all Undivided, even Taurox who is kind of khorne-ish spreads undivided corruption.

"The true children of Chaos, Beastmen belong body and soul to the dark powers from their very birth. The Dark Gods have no need to woo Beastmen with divine gifts and offers of immortality, for the Beastmen instinctively serve Chaos with their bestial, violent nature. As such, the attention lavished on mortal humans (even those who have no wish for such attention!) by the Dark Gods causes the Beastmen to react with a jealous rage."

Unlike humans or elves, Beastmen are inherently chaotic, and for them there is no big deal who to worship - they are THE children of Chaos.

In the same vein, the greatest gift the gods ever bestowed on the BM was the very same that afflicted those few men of the far north with mutation after the collapse of the polar gates. That was enough to get the ball rolling on a constant chaotic presence in the world as they spread in earlier times, and since then the gods have rarely, barely bothered with them. They moved on to the mechanics of getting better, later civilised mortals on side as it were, and this achieved with far greater, flashier boons, gifts and support than the BM have ever got. Even a minor Chaos warlord whether in Norsca or beyond or farther south tend to have far better digs to start planning world conquest (or destruction) from, some nice fairly modern wargear and a retinue with some of their number equally well equipped.

Against that, even a far more immediately threatening BM boss down in the Reikswald (or wherever) with a similar sized horde might have a den shanks deep in a porridge of gore and mud (among other, icky things) warming up around a sputtery fire of smoldering mossy wood and a meal of grubs and entrails... and the boss himself the best equipped by far with a raggedy rusty mail hauberk and a blunt axe nicked from some old barrow. A Dark Fortress or even half as good it ain't. Even Orcs generally have better, or at least more, kit to go around as well as other perks. While Skaven at least don't get rained on and frozen from one day to the next.

How the BM do it, and keep on at what must seem a futile effort ultimately, I have no idea but they are the constant presence and pressure of chaotic darkness in the old world and elsewhere while other Chaos factions have way better conditions in and definitely out of battle nm not getting as much of said battling as regularly.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

Beastmen in general worship undivided, and even have different god-flavoured variants of their troops in lore and tabletop (like tzaangors or slaangors). In TW however, it does seem that they are all Undivided, even Taurox who is kind of khorne-ish spreads undivided corruption.

As a counter argument, while the original vision the devs had for the Beastmen were very likely undivided. It should be noted that Tzaangors, Centigors of Tzeentch and Pestigors have been added to TW through DLC, there are also Khorne minotaurs that are currently unavailable to the Beastmen (Khorne only, but hopefully they will eventually be added to the Beastmen roster, at the very least i feel like Taurox should get them) and a Khorne themed regiment of reknown Ghorgon.

So we do have some god flavored Beastmen stuff in TW. With more likely being on the way (would be very surprised if we don't see Khorngors in the next DLC and Slaangors in the one after).

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually lean a bit more into god themed LL for the Beastmen (For example changing it so that Taurox give Khorne corruption and change his skills around a tad to buff Khorne marked beastmen a tad).

[Falaris]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually lean a bit more into god themed LL for the Beastmen (For example changing it so that Taurox give Khorne corruption and change his skills around a tad to buff Khorne marked beastmen a tad).

Well, Taurox has a skill that makes him give +5 khorne corruption.

Still, paraphrasing Animal Farm here - we beastmen are all undivided, but some are more undivided than others.

[Enelith]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Originally posted by Lotor13:

Taurox is dedicated to Khorne, Others are undivided.

It is natural , that not all Chaos guys are dedicated to single Chaos god, but Chaos in general

I thought Taurox only impressed Khorne, but not that Taurox worships Khorne.

I feel it's more "Taurox rampage left and right. Khorne approves how Taurox behave, and grants him his favors."

The Gods are fickles !

[Old Captain Yon]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

Beastmen in general worship undivided, and even have different god-flavoured variants of their troops in lore and tabletop (like tzaangors or slaangors). In TW however, it does seem that they are all Undivided, even Taurox who is kind of khorne-ish spreads undivided corruption.

As a counter argument, while the original vision the devs had for the Beastmen were very likely undivided. It should be noted that Tzaangors, Centigors of Tzeentch and Pestigors have been added to TW through DLC, there are also Khorne minotaurs that are currently unavailable to the Beastmen (Khorne only, but hopefully they will eventually be added to the Beastmen roster, at the very least i feel like Taurox should get them) and a Khorne themed regiment of reknown Ghorgon.

So we do have some god flavored Beastmen stuff in TW. With more likely being on the way (would be very surprised if we don't see Khorngors in the next DLC and Slaangors in the one after).

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually lean a bit more into god themed LL for the Beastmen (For example changing it so that Taurox give Khorne corruption and change his skills around a tad to buff Khorne marked beastmen a tad).

Oh, I didn't know. What armies have them? Still, it is actually in line with the lore. Chaos undivided includes all gods, after all. They worship Khorne when they fight, Nurgle when they spread misery and disease, Tzeench when their flesh mutates and changes (or when they cast their primitive magic), and Slaanesh when they... Uhm.. Uhmm.

[Bloodwyrm Wildheart]

There are also many beastmen that, for some reason, aren't represented within the game, such as the Apemen of the Southlands, the Lakemen of Bretonnia, the Ymir of Norsca and, of course, the Naga of Khuresh.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

What armies have them?

The list is a tad complex since the units are sprinkled out to a bunch of different armies, so i beg your pardon for any mistakes, but i believe the following is accurate.

Tzaangors & Centigors of Tzeentch (Shadows of Change DLC):
Beastmen, Daemons of Chaos, Tzeentch & Warriors of Chaos (Only Vilitch).

Pestigors (Thrones of Decay DLC):
Beastmen, Daemons of Chaos, Nurgle & Warriors of Chaos (Only Festus)

The Bloodbrute Behemoth RoR (Ghorgon, Khorne themed) (The Silence & The Fury DLC):
Beastmen, Daemons of Chaos, Khorne & Warriors of Chaos.

Minotaurs of Khorne & Minotaurs of Khorne (Great Weapons):
Daemons of Chaos & Khorne.

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

and Slaanesh when they... Uhm.. Uhmm.

Enjoy anything to excess, including stuff like eating (preferable taboo or forbidden things) and their own or others pain :P And admittedly also the stuff best not mentioned here.