Fleshy Abundance OC is now useless

[Amalgamation]

The 4 units it targets (used to be 60+ - all your allies in proximity) are completely arbitrary and it will not in any way prioritize low HP units.

It has gone from a braindead heal spell to one of incredible micromanagement to get its full effects, in addition to relying on quick unit placement to maximize its use, something nurgle DOESNT HAVE.

I legit had one of the units it decided to heal to be at 99% HP while it left out one at 45% HP in the same proximity.

[Imposter]

It especially doesn't help when nurgles playstyle is to blob against the enemy lines either... But how can they balance that? Maybe revert but nerf its healing time?

[Heinz]

It did not make sense for it to be stronger than Invocation of Nehek lorewise. Actually, it should be quite a bit weaker. The lore of Nurgle still has "Children of Nurgle" effect which heals just like the lore of vampires equivalent. Also Nurgle has a ton of units with regeneration, which is super OP, so it was not as important to Nurgle in the first place - when compared to how important the lore of vampires is to the undead. Yet the Nurgle heal was far stronger.

[Amalgamation]

Originally posted by Heinz:

It did not make sense for it to be stronger than Invocation of Nehek lorewise. Actually, it should be quite a bit weaker. The lore of Nurgle still has "Children of Nurgle" effect which heals just like the lore of vampires equivalent. Also Nurgle has a ton of units with regeneration, which is super OP, so it was not as important to Nurgle in the first place - when compared to how important the lore of vampires is to the undead. Yet the Nurgle heal was far stronger.

the problem is lorewise doesnt help much when its actual gameplay we are talking about here.

Nurgle's roster is too slow to play with moving around units to get the FA(OC) 4 stack to target the right units. even if all the stuff you said was true gameplay wise (which, frankly, it isnt.) it would still be an INCREDIBLY poorly implemented mechanic as it is a high cost, high output heal spell that will randomly target a unit with 99% HP instead of one with 45%.

There no defense for that, and you didnt even try, because you know its BS. Also, the idea that Regeneration, on these 32 speed SME giant targets is "super OP" is frankly laughable. Yah the beast of nurgle is a real Super OP unit because of that regen...... lmao. Frankly, its remarks like your that make me feel you actually havent played Nurgle as a faction since launch and have no clue what youre talking about in terms of whats OP or not. Even the concept that having Regen makes a unit OP is so out of touch for this entire franchise really. its good, but its not "super OP" and absolutely doesnt take the place of FA healing.

[Amalgamation]

Originally posted by Imposter:

It especially doesn't help when nurgles playstyle is to blob against the enemy lines either... But how can they balance that? Maybe revert but nerf its healing time?

i would be fine with them changing it to heal less and take longer for the same WoM cost. The change they implemented is frankly awful and makes the spell worthless, It seems to always pick the worst units to heal in the blob.

[Amalgamation]

Testing it again - the spell will literally target units at their Healing CAP while there are units that can be healed within the proximity, its a garbage change and has ruined the spell.

[TiberiusGaben]

fleshy abundance only targets 1 unit and only transfers to a max of 1 unit . i believe transfer is random . use uncle furnucle

[TiberiusGaben]

i think your thinking fleshy abundance is fecundity which it isnt

[Amalgamation]

Originally posted by TiberiusGaben:

fleshy abundance only targets 1 unit and only transfers to a max of 1 unit . i believe transfer is random . use uncle furnucle

Oh buddy, I hate to tell you this AFTER the nerf. But no, you're very wrong.

REGULAR fleshy abundance is a single target spell...... OVERCAST flesh abundance is an AOE spell that previously healed EVERY friendly unit in that area, now it's been capped to 4 random units within the AOE (and it'll often pick ones with near full half over units with far less).

No offense, but I always love when people come in as "an authority" when it turns out they have FAR less knowledge than those already discussing the topic.

[Enelith]

It will be on par with Invocation of Nehek after nerf (in terms of targets)
Nehek had similar behavior to Fleshy Abundance before, and would also heal everyone in AoE.
Guess some (MP?) people complained it was too OP, and they had to change it...

[Yannir]

It just makes sense that all healing spells should have similar restrictions. Earth Blood is 4 targets and Invo of Nehek is 4 targets, so Fleshy Abundance should be 4 targets. And none of them have target prioritization.

I guess you'll need to use War Shrines if you want everyone in the blob to heal. Just like Counts use Corpse Carts.

[AkumulatoR]

You're correct in thinking it's this way because of m*ltiplayer. And Nehek and other heals was nerfed long ago, also because of them. They're the reason why we can't have nice things.

I guess you can beg on official CA forum to add some kind of priorities for choosing heal targets when overcasting, but I wouldn't hold my breath for this to happen ever, especially if usual suspects start kvetching about it because it counters their chosen mp shilltuber's favorite playstyle or something.

[Carog the Fat]

Chaos sorc/cultist on warshrines plus the melee champion and you can get a lot fo healing with no spell casting. They didnt nerf those to max 4 did they?

[Storm Runner]

to me the whole blob everyone up and heal doesnt feel very nurgle
like nurgle should be about shrugging off damage not healing it up after

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by AkumulatoR:

You're correct in thinking it's this way because of m*ltiplayer. And Nehek and other heals was nerfed long ago, also because of them. They're the reason why we can't have nice things.

I guess you can beg on official CA forum to add some kind of priorities for choosing heal targets when overcasting, but I wouldn't hold my breath for this to happen ever, especially if usual suspects start kvetching about it because it counters their chosen mp shilltuber's favorite playstyle or something.

Not entirely true. There was a single player component to it as well, as people prolonged battles to heal and resurrect entities(which you can do with Vampire Counts). This made combat losses next to pointless, because as long as the unit was not wiped, and you had enough winds of magic left, you could keep healing most of your army back up. It trivialized a lot of the gameplay, and people felt compelled to do it, because it was technically the most efficient way to play(this was also before healing cap was a thing).

With that said, the majority of the reason was still multiplayer, because those were the frequent events where you were on the receiving end(fighting against) the massive amount of healing these spells could produce. When healing spells eclipsed most, if not all damage spells, something has to be done.


Anyway, back to the Fleshy Abundance:
I am pretty sure that if you actively target a unit with it(center on unit), it will target that unit 100% of the time with the heal, then choose the 3 other targets at random. Just like any other AoE healing ability.
It heals twice as much per tick than Earth Blood, Invocation of Nehek, and about 50% more than overcasted Regrowth, meaning the burst heal it provides is better than all of them.


The total heal of Fleshy Abundance is something like 30.5% of max health on affected targets, over 18 seconds.
Overcasted Regrowth is 32.5% for a single target, over 26 seconds. It is bascially only in the last 2 seconds that it overtakes Fleshy Abundance.
Invocation of Nehek is about 15% per target, over 18 seconds(but has the benefit of resurrection).
Overcasted Earth Blood is 12% per target, over 14 seconds.

[Amalgamation]

Great discussion everyone, thanks for your input.

I think my biggest issue with the change to a cap like other spells is that those spells aren't the point of those factions, for nurgle it literally is.

And just as importantly, the other factions that have regrowth, earthblood, IoN, etc. are MUCH FASTER than nurgle units. Moving around units for nurgle to get the most out of this AOE healing is FAR more difficult than it is for other factions as they literally are the slowest.

Thanks for the tip on the dedicated heal on the centralized target, however again this is a draw back as you now need to have that unit be in range of the other units and not centralize on an area that will cover all units.

Just really disappointed to see this netted so hard I barely use the OC version due to all the aforementioned factors that reduce its effectiveness.