Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
dont really feel like having to look up the opinion of another person wanting to play nurgle like khorne
Good thing I don't want or suggest they should! :) My recommendations were about balancing the economy on Nurgle unique mechanics, and leaning towards them (so more plagues, more turtling, more attrition actually doing something to AI etc.). No "Let Nurgle spawn infinite mid tier armies and melee zerg the map with high MA/AP".
you also dont consider replenishment rate in recruit cost
you shouldnt need to replace your units often if anything survives
hell a pinks useless ass costing 10 more in upkeep sais less about nurgles original recruit cost and more about tzeensh overpriced upkeep
the ebb and flow is highly overrated
since you dont start with the extra pop in cities you will be making your buildings one at a time
equalizing the ebb and flow since all buildings will never be ebbing at the same time
late game this becomes more relevant as you get more pop in newly captured places, but by then you have plenty income
its a non issue
combined with your garrison buildings being your econ basically makes you money by building walls, thats pretty efficient
you trying to make sure your buildings ebb at the same times is you delibirately crippling yourself instead of letting the natural cycle that nurgle is all about do its thing
your missing that nurgle recruits heroes anywhere
yes your missing the extra slots from the recruit building, but you also dont need to build it at all
you do spam heroes in your army so it makes sense you value the building more
but with a more sensibly built army you have both plenty of heroes to fill your ranks and can recruit them everywhere so you dont need to build the anti skaven building as nurgle
your missing infections when counting your infections
if your disease only infects one thing, you failed in deployment
yes early game they are rare, and you need to be considerate in using them
thats not a bad thing
wanting a plague per turn isnt reasonable in the early game, you are using cheat engine and cheese to end up with unreasonable expectations from game mechanics
yes i do agree, the base plagues are practically useless
and several symptoms just do nothing, or nothing noticeable
for example, reducing replenishment is meaningless if any attrition prevents replenishment
not that attrition is worth anything beyond preventing replenishment with how little it does
and thats a symptom you can put on several times
plagues feel like something you only put on yourself for the defense buffs, putting them on the enemy is
but mostly what bothers me the most is that plages are either good or bad, not both
a disease should be bad on your enemy while the ones that accept nurgle should feel the blessing
plages should have both a good and bad depending on who catches it and several symptoms need a rework
spread cap, yes, thats dumb
can understand them not wanting an out of control system since there is no counter, but the numbers now are weak
would have to start a new nurgle game to test but pretty sure the number of new plagues is 4 per turn, not 2
2 from a lord, 2 from a city
would it be nice to have more? sure, but its a reasonable limit
ai attrition protection is a problem for all
khornes defensive building supposed to prevent the ai sieging you out also doesnt actually do anything
combined with attrition already being near useless mechanic even against the player
most factions have two easy to use attrition nullifying stances, its a waste of 0's and 1's
attrition needs a rework so it does something, both vs ai and player
a complete rework of the system
but atleast for nurgle its a good replenishment blocker since plague duration can make an army crippled for a relevant amount of time
wouldnt call missile defense worthless, nor range and accuracy, the debuffs and buffs are acceptable
not amazing, but not worthless
functional would be the word i would use, atleast for the symptoms that do something
would be nice to have some techs that upgrade symptom effectiveness instead of adding 1% plague duration
paroxysm does hurt the ai
infact there are many people advising it and telling people to infect all settlements in a province as it will basically permanenty incapacitate an enemy army as it tries to recruit units that will never actually spawn
yes it does stack
the tiered system suggested would mean your patient 0 can keep infecting
yes the 3d would be the end of that spreading but you can keep going deeper into their lands and make a second line that could spread again till the third generation
you need somekind of limit else the game breaks and thats honestly not a bad idea to limit it
it makes it so that patient 0 can spread forever, your nurgle army keeps spreading it, but it wont cover the world
it would need some actual input, wich is good
input as a requirement means you need to think more about how its done instead of just letting them loose into the world and being fine
Find it worrying you think pinks aren't worth anything... whilst you say plaguebearers are? Hmm. Especially given a pink can kill 3 plaguebearers without damage, and 5 can destroy a settlement of 12 garrison strength...
Replenishment side, they're below Khorne and Kislev, despite that being their major thing. Likewise, replenishment doesn't change the fact you need to have the funds to afford them to begin with. It's like saying the refueling cost of the car you can't afford will be cheap.
That is the point of me providing the average income, because realistically they won't. So realistically, they're 1/3 the economic strength of the next weakest faction. Saying "when you've won the campaign, you've got plenty of money" is moot - it is about the effort vs chore involved in getting there. It seems you didn't understand the whole part there, as I did analysis for when built all at once, but also compared individual costs, average costs that take into consideration of ebb/flow etc. The reality is they produce less income at maximum and on average, for greater individual cost. Realistically it is more fair to say they're at 1/4 economic strength of birds, and less than 1/6 of every other faction (maybe 1/10 of Khorne, Kislev and Ogres).
As I said, I used Cheat Engine to generate the scenarios. Likewise you've mistaken one of the plague factors - it's spread capacity. You can have 100 (i tested with 30 armies in 4 provinces) armies all clusted. They won't spread more than 4 times. Interestingly this wasn't observed during beta testing during gameplay from folks like Legend. So it may be an unintended cap. Regardless, from the initial plague, it can only be spread 4 times. Not each individual infected unit spread 4 times. So you infect a city, and it can from then on, only spread 4 times. It may spread to 1 region, and then that and the original city each spread once. From there, it will no longer spread again.
Cheat Engine itself was only used for specific tests, with each being a new game. For example the isolating the Ogre. To fool a single ogre stack into being stationary, whilst eliminating its resources, and applying a plague to a worthless target? Not realistic or possible to create without these tools. Don't get me wrong - I'm cash rich on my Nurgle campaign due to 0 recruit cost nurglings, and those wall buildings you mentioned are part of that. But I'm also very aware I'm not soloing the whole map in 30-40 turns like with the other 3. I'm not saying it's unplayable. I'm saying it is disproportionately weaker and less fun than the others (fun being the same as "not having to do chores" in this case)
But yeah, you can only do 1 infect and 1 plaguepriest per turn. So by mid game, the original cost problem goes away and now you have a "now I have infections I can't use" problem. Seems a silly oversight to be honest and I don't think the limit was originally intended. There isn't missile defence. There is only a -10 range and accuracy for ranged units. The range itself being pointless due to speed issues, likewise because Nurgle is a blob, accuracy isn't an issue - especially as they're mostly large entities. So it's like saying an AK is inaccurate and short range, but you can only stand face in front of the barrel. It's a side step rather than a step forward I see it. The 10% range doesn't factor in as no unit will get an extra volley in that space. So it's an irrelevant thing. Needs to be at least 20% to reduce them by at least 1 volley.
That only applies on very easy and easy I'm afraid. The AI further have minimum set values for recruitment, at 1, 2 and 4. So no matter how many debuffs you apply, it will prevent it being fully functional. Likewise, look back at the previous situation with spread cap and limited plagues per turn. You'd be having overall less value to debuff a singular army. For a lot of investment and work. So a chore, for investment, to get little return.
Ah, so the initial victim remains "patient 0" essentially forever? I quite like that. Though I'd prefer it be limited to Nurgle owned settlements than armies. Otherwise we get 10 1 man stacks running around (though I love the idea of naming these guys Georgie Porgie and having them chase Katarin around).
My question for that is, will the patient 0 have a duration? How would that aspect work? Otherwise, with that little extra explanation I love it! :)
You can spread 4 times per turn:
- Directly on an army
- Cultist ("plaguepriest") from an army
- Directly on a settlement
- Cultist from a settlement
That 5 pinks can destroy a settlement of 12 garrison. In .. what world? Are you running mods that disables towers?
Nurgle is leagues above Khorne and Kislev in replenishment, barring their rite, they have a plague that applies a 35% replenishment. This alone skyrockets them into the top spot, way above anyone else.
Nurgle has no issues with income, perhaps if you stop taking over towns and actually sack cities for money, or are you omitting the plague Nurgle has for a massive 250% sack bonus? You not taking advantage of things Nurgle provides, does not mean Nurgle is bad.
*Snip*
No, you can infect multiple plagues per turn. Target a different settlement, a different army and presto you're able to inflict many plagues per turn as you desire.
Yes, I fully agree on Nurgle being able to to have something akin to missile resist. But again, Nurgle has a plague that gives 20% physical resist. Giving a boost when applicable in the campaign map. [/quote]
Honestly, I find that Slaanesh requires way more tweaking in campaign then Nurgle does.
Khorne is quite braindead easy to play on the campaign map, akin to Taurox.
But Nurgle is by far the strongest daemon faction on campaign map for a player.
even their spells arnt better then other factions and cathay gets what makes kairos special for free on all mages
replenishment you have a plague
yes base they are low but then you add basically going to full hp every turn to that
yes you did the math, yes their econ is slightly worse
yes i completely understood it
it still doesnt bother me to be slightly below average since their econ is also defense
can it use a slight buff? sure, it wouldnt hurt but its also not necessary
yes i agree the spread limit is dumb that its so low, tho some cap or limit is needed since there is no counterplay
that should be changed in some way
wich is a better solution then increasing base infections as that will just escalate you faster to the point where you make 4 full plages every turns without thought
you start weak, thats how these games work
and the difficult decisions in the early game are generally what makes these games intresting so should stay
guess thats one mayor difference between us, i dont really see soloing the map by turn 30 as fun
i prefer some resistance, some challenge
and with nurgle you keep some challenge in offence while being secure in your defense
personally i like that and had a great time with nurgle
still pretty sure its 4 per turn, but yes soon you escalate in infection cost being irrelevant
wich is what you would reach faster if infection income was higher
i prefer the early game lack of infections over the late game lack of plagues
but yes, both arnt ideal
you would be using your city cultists to spread plague to enemy cities anyway, adding the symptom isnt more work
you should be doing that anyway even if its just for the nurgle corruption
yea the first infected is patient 0 for the entire plague duration
the idea is to just prevent out of control escalation, else one plague would cover the world with 0 input with no counter possible
you can escalate it with the patient 0 by your actions but it would have limits spreading beyond that
it would still be limited to plague duration, not forever but the 10+ turns lategame can spread quite a few times
ofcourse the original cultist would still suicide to cause the patient 0, not just one cultist running around forever
hate having to reinfect my own army and using up one of the plagues per turn because a plague i set on my enemy replaced the one i have on my army
plagues having both a positive for nurgle while also being negative for non nurgle would be a better option then letting you choose not to get infected, but either would be nice
You can't. If you infect one army directly, for example, you can only do that again on any army next turn, so the limit is 4 infections per turn (2 direct and 2 cultists).
Honestly, I find that Slaanesh requires way more tweaking in campaign then Nurgle does.
Khorne is quite braindead easy to play on the campaign map, akin to Taurox.
But Nurgle is by far the strongest daemon faction on campaign map for a player. [/quote]
Honestly, given our dumb the AI are, I'm worried you're taking damage beyond barrier damage if you're playing birds. Even with the change to keymaster and barrier replenishment. Barrier as a player against AI, especially in settlement, is just about patience and how much time you're willing to invest :)
Replenishment is capped. All three reach that cap. Khorne doing it the earliest.
You mean 250% of the already lowest base sack value... Yeah, that totally equals 1/4 to 1/10th economic power...
Nurgle is the strongest? Compared to free army generation, essentially immortal armies, and chariots that 1 shot lords with 300 speed charge bonuses? You're basing this on...?
because i have had units of plaguebearers recover from 2 models to 5 below full in one turn
thats not something you can do as khorne