Dead Eye or Grudge-raker line for Dwarf Engineer?

[Lampros]

What do you guys prefer to take?

[Avallac]

dead eye for long range sniping capability, grudge raker is useless in multiplayer campaigns too.

[Falaris]

One of the things you want to be able to deal with is flying hero spellcasters (or other high value targets).

A deadeye engineer lets you do just that; grudge rakers do not.

[KoboldUtopian]

Deadeye 100%. It's much more useful to be able to snipe things (SEM, Heroes, etc.) from father away. The Grudgeraker is fine for up close infantry killing but you don't really need that because of your strong front line and your gun/bow infantry is better at it anyway.

[[MadTs] Phyrys]

I know I should take Dead Eye all the way, but seeing an angry ghost dwarf pulverize a line of gobbo with a 16 gauge is too funny to skip.

[pascal.difolco]

Dead Eye
The other one has too short of a range

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Avallac:

dead eye for long range sniping capability, grudge raker is useless in multiplayer campaigns too.

Originally posted by Falaris:

One of the things you want to be able to deal with is flying hero spellcasters (or other high value targets).

A deadeye engineer lets you do just that; grudge rakers do not.

Originally posted by CoerciveUtopian:

Deadeye 100%. It's much more useful to be able to snipe things (SEM, Heroes, etc.) from father away. The Grudgeraker is fine for up close infantry killing but you don't really need that because of your strong front line and your gun/bow infantry is better at it anyway.

Originally posted by MadTs Phyrys:

I know I should take Dead Eye all the way, but seeing an angry ghost dwarf pulverize a line of gobbo with a 16 gauge is too funny to skip.

Originally posted by pascal.difolco:

Dead Eye
The other one has too short of a range

A small sample size, but I didn't know it would be unanimous. I had been experimenting with Grudge-raker, because I found "gun" characters difficult to use throughout the battle unless constantly micro-managing. The need for direct line of fire means that they are mostly standing there doing nothing, whereas Grudge-raker characters can be put in the middle of a scrum and can more or less go "auto."

How do you guys keep gun characters constantly firing?

[Fendelphi]

If I have a trait that makes the Engineer better in melee, I tend to take Grudgeraker. A couple of close range shots followed by a decent charge and melee capabilities(in combo with your other units) works quite well.

Otherwise I go for the Dead Eye line. The Dead Eye makes it easier to support Artillery with various buffs.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

If I have a trait that makes the Engineer better in melee, I tend to take Grudgeraker. A couple of close range shots followed by a decent charge and melee capabilities(in combo with your other units) works quite well.

Otherwise I go for the Dead Eye line. The Dead Eye makes it easier to support Artillery with various buffs.

I "farm" traits on characters, so the trait availability is not a concern. Do you find the Grudge-raker character surviving okay in melee?

And how do you position your ranged Engineers to shoot efficiently, if you go by that route?

[Avallac]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Avallac:

dead eye for long range sniping capability, grudge raker is useless in multiplayer campaigns too.

Originally posted by Falaris:

One of the things you want to be able to deal with is flying hero spellcasters (or other high value targets).

A deadeye engineer lets you do just that; grudge rakers do not.

Originally posted by CoerciveUtopian:

Deadeye 100%. It's much more useful to be able to snipe things (SEM, Heroes, etc.) from father away. The Grudgeraker is fine for up close infantry killing but you don't really need that because of your strong front line and your gun/bow infantry is better at it anyway.

Originally posted by MadTs Phyrys:

I know I should take Dead Eye all the way, but seeing an angry ghost dwarf pulverize a line of gobbo with a 16 gauge is too funny to skip.

Originally posted by pascal.difolco:

Dead Eye
The other one has too short of a range

A small sample size, but I didn't know it would be unanimous. I had been experimenting with Grudge-raker, because I found "gun" characters difficult to use throughout the battle unless constantly micro-managing. The need for direct line of fire means that they are mostly standing there doing nothing, whereas Grudge-raker characters can be put in the middle of a scrum and can more or less go "auto."

How do you guys keep gun characters constantly firing?

I have to make sure my dwarfs aren't in the line of fire and keep close attention on terrain. Shooting large targets and leaving some space in front of the sniper makes it a lot easier, as large targets are tall and can be shot at from behind friendly line (if the shooter is not too close).

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Avallac:

I have to make sure my dwarfs aren't in the line of fire and keep close attention on terrain. Shooting large targets and leaving some space in front of the sniper makes it a lot easier, as large targets are tall and can be shot at from behind friendly line (if the shooter is not too close).

Do you put them alone on the side/front or in a checker position with the gun units?

[Amphibian Artillery]

For gun units I usually only do a checker position of three so right middle left with the middle sticking out farther than the right and left. I then put my melee units guarding the flanks so that the guns can deal maximum damage before I retreat them and have the melee units intercept any enemy units coming down the middle. I then reposition my gun units to the sides so that they can still shoot into the flanks of the enemies. For characters with guns they're easy enough to position and I just put them anywhere they are able to shoot.

[StrangestEcho]

Grudge-Raker can be useful if you need more front-line capability. You can give them regeneration and stack melee defense, but yeah generally you want Dead-Eye. The stalk is great for Copter stacks, as the AI will not be able to find them.

[miscellaneous unc]

For gyrocopter spam army: Always Dead Eye for Bare Essentials (Stalk)
First three engineers in a normal army: Dead Eye for Ballistic Calibration to buff troops. It has a duration of 32 seconds and a cooldown of 90. Maintaining this buff effectively will give your army a huge DPS boost with its reload rate, and accuracy is nice too.

Cinderblast Shell is very good, but it's difficult to justify due to how good Ballistic Calibration is. If engineers could get a horseback mount like empire engineers can this would be far more useful as you'd be able to harass with cinderblast shells, however as it stands that is not the case.

As for what is better for damage... It doesn't matter. No dwarven Engineer is going to put out more damage per second than even a single unit of thunderers in 90% of cases. Grudge-rakers are frankly better from my experience, but you lose out on Bare Essentials and Ballistic Calibration which I cannot justify in most cases.

If you're running a mostly melee oriented army and you're mostly using a single Engineer for Increase Mobility, then Grudge-raker does make a lot more sense, and it's likely intented by design, but besides making a Slayer stack with Ungrim Ironfist or a Hammerer spam with Thorgrim you're scarcely going to field armies of this variety.

[miscellaneous unc]

Originally posted by PROVIDENCE:

First three engineers in a normal army

That's assuming you are, for some reason, actually fitting that many Engineers into a single army. I'd stop at 2 almost always. (Unless you're running Gyro's, with all of your land units effectively invisible you can safely resupply the entire army multiple times over, and since the buffs stack you can get ridiculous damage numbers for Gryo's)

[Adamsevs]

Hardy trait (+15% phys resistance) on a Grudgeraker engineer with perhaps the gatekeeper hammer (forge weapon that gives +10% melee defence notably) makes it a decent replacement for a thane or dragonslayer hero as a frontline.

If their grudgerakers had the same range as the thunderers units equipped with grudgerakers (90 range) it would have make this choice more interesting outside of this niche spot imo