Necromancer on Corpse Cart is Suicide

[Dillinius Sandar]

This mount for that lord is absolute garbage compared to the alternatives. It seems like it'd be great with the stacking AOE bonuses but on the contrary, unless you have extreme flanking superiority to eliminate EVERY ranged unit the enemy has, it'll just evaporate to ranged fire. The thing is so slow it's almost impossible to evade anything other than long range arrows and it barely does that which ultimately just causes wasted time in constantly microing one unit.

For example, every single battle I fought against wood elves, they straight up killed this lord, my mortis engine, and another corpse cart within 30 seconds of the battle lines meeting, all from ranged. Even while tying up most of their ranged, if literally 1-2 ranged units are free to shoot, bye bye necromancer. Same with Empire, one single handgunner free to fire absolutely melts him, especially with the new long rifles. They got a couple cannons free to fire? dead.

I'm not saying it's impossible to utilise this lord in combat, like I said if you can flank and remove said ranged, then it can show how powerful it really is with it's AOE's among the front line but 1v1 armies where the enemy meets your flanking force with their own cavalry, etc. and delays you dealing with their ranged, at this point i just keep this lord 200 meters behind the front line til they're dealt with, real fun gameplay. And I know Vargheists are the ultimate bypass everything and kill ranged unit but I hate being shoehorned into spamming vargheists every single time. I don't know what the answer is to make this mount more fun to use and less of an instant death but I thought i'd share my ticked off thoughts about this mount.

[Fendelphi]

The Corpse Cart mount is bad. Too slow to be effective in combat(all your units will have been fighting for a while, before you reach the frontline), and too big so it is an easy target for artillery and ranged units, and with too little survivability. The buffs it provides are nice, but not essential. If you do intend to use it, make sure that you have as much equipment and skills that grant missile resistance and ward saves as possible.

But a more important question is, why wouldnt you have extreme flanking superiority? Vampire Counts can pop up units as they please. Your opponent should be drowning in bodies. You should be able to engage every one of their armies with at least 2 of your own.

If that is not achievable yet(it takes time and a decent economy to set up), then yes, keep them off the Corpse Cart at all cost, and use the other mounts speed to do what you need to.

[Dillinius Sandar]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

The Corpse Cart mount is bad. Too slow to be effective in combat(all your units will have been fighting for a while, before you reach the frontline), and too big so it is an easy target for artillery and ranged units, and with too little survivability. The buffs it provides are nice, but not essential. If you do intend to use it, make sure that you have as much equipment and skills that grant missile resistance and ward saves as possible.

But a more important question is, why wouldnt you have extreme flanking superiority? Vampire Counts can pop up units as they please. Your opponent should be drowning in bodies. You should be able to engage every one of their armies with at least 2 of your own.

If that is not achievable yet(it takes time and a decent economy to set up), then yes, keep them off the Corpse Cart at all cost, and use the other mounts speed to do what you need to.

if the enemy has 4-6 strong cavalry units, that can pretty easily delay your own flanking force enough to let their range go ham. As I said 1v1 battles, meaning 1 army vs 1 army, this lord is mass targeted by all ranged from the AI. If you send a corpse cart lord up with the front line when the armies meet, other than vargheists, no unit can flank quick enough anyway before they focus fire melt said lord.

I know all the quasi-cheese methods in order to combat this, like having 4-6 vargeists in every corpse cart lords army and bee-lining them to every ranged unit but it's kinda dumb when this lord mount is only viable in such few circumstances. Like I said I honestly don't see how this is fixable because it's technically operating exactly how it's suppose to be, if I focus fire on any largish mounted lord they usually melt instantly as well. I'm just kinda venting my frustrations about this mounts wasted potential by pointing this out.

[Dillinius Sandar]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

The Corpse Cart mount is bad. Too slow to be effective in combat(all your units will have been fighting for a while, before you reach the frontline), and too big so it is an easy target for artillery and ranged units, and with too little survivability. The buffs it provides are nice, but not essential. If you do intend to use it, make sure that you have as much equipment and skills that grant missile resistance and ward saves as possible.

But a more important question is, why wouldnt you have extreme flanking superiority? Vampire Counts can pop up units as they please. Your opponent should be drowning in bodies. You should be able to engage every one of their armies with at least 2 of your own.

If that is not achievable yet(it takes time and a decent economy to set up), then yes, keep them off the Corpse Cart at all cost, and use the other mounts speed to do what you need to.

And also, I don't just constantly have armies roaming in pairs, yes I have lots of Vamp armies but not every battle I do is 2-3v1

[-Singularity-]

Originally posted by Dillinius Sandar:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

The Corpse Cart mount is bad. Too slow to be effective in combat(all your units will have been fighting for a while, before you reach the frontline), and too big so it is an easy target for artillery and ranged units, and with too little survivability. The buffs it provides are nice, but not essential. If you do intend to use it, make sure that you have as much equipment and skills that grant missile resistance and ward saves as possible.

But a more important question is, why wouldnt you have extreme flanking superiority? Vampire Counts can pop up units as they please. Your opponent should be drowning in bodies. You should be able to engage every one of their armies with at least 2 of your own.

If that is not achievable yet(it takes time and a decent economy to set up), then yes, keep them off the Corpse Cart at all cost, and use the other mounts speed to do what you need to.

And also, I don't just constantly have armies roaming in pairs, yes I have lots of Vamp armies but not every battle I do is 2-3v1

Necromancer lords stink even without the survivability problems, when you can have as an alternative a dragon riding melee lord instead. I do use necro heroes with carts and never lose them. In addition to vargheists, are you using your lords/heroes raise dead ability to drop zombies on ranged or in the path of cav that make it around your flank?

[Dillinius Sandar]

Originally posted by -Singularity-:

Originally posted by Dillinius Sandar:

And also, I don't just constantly have armies roaming in pairs, yes I have lots of Vamp armies but not every battle I do is 2-3v1

Necromancer lords stink even without the survivability problems, when you can have as an alternative a dragon riding melee lord instead. I do use necro heroes with carts and never lose them. In addition to vargheists, are you using your lords/heroes raise dead ability to drop zombies on ranged or in the path of cav that make it around your flank?

the raise dead spell has extremely short range, especially compared to how far most ranged units can fire, and I never get flanked as Vamps, I always flank, the only problem is when my flanking force has to get through a bunch of elite enemy cavalry first. And saying why not just use vampires lords instead defeats the point of what i'm saying, that the corpse carts are cool and is a bummer they're so vulnerable. I like unit variety, if I cared about META i'd be running around with 20 stacks of varghulfs/terrorgheists which is super lame to me.

I would also like to say unless you've barely played vamps, there's no way you haven't lost corpse carts/necro's. They are 90% of the time the first things to die in my battles (to ranged) even when i'm massively superior to the enemy and most of those times they're the only things to die in my army.

[-Singularity-]

Originally posted by Dillinius Sandar:

Originally posted by -Singularity-:

Necromancer lords stink even without the survivability problems, when you can have as an alternative a dragon riding melee lord instead. I do use necro heroes with carts and never lose them. In addition to vargheists, are you using your lords/heroes raise dead ability to drop zombies on ranged or in the path of cav that make it around your flank?

the raise dead spell has extremely short range, especially compared to how far most ranged units can fire, and I never get flanked as Vamps, I always flank, the only problem is when my flanking force has to get through a bunch of elite enemy cavalry first. And saying why not just use vampires lords instead defeats the point of what i'm saying, that the corpse carts are cool and is a bummer they're so vulnerable. I like unit variety, if I cared about META i'd be running around with 20 stacks of varghulfs/terrorgheists which is super lame to me.

I would also like to say unless you've barely played vamps, there's no way you haven't lost corpse carts/necro's. They are 90% of the time the first things to die in my battles (to ranged) even when i'm massively superior to the enemy and most of those times they're the only things to die in my army.

You can extend the range of raise dead in the skill tree. If you have a flying lord range doesn't matter that much and they all have raise dead. He can drop zombies anywhere on the battlefield.

Vamps are one of my 3 top races to play, and one of the few I bothered to keep playing to a long victory on vh/vh. If you are losing carts you are bring them up too fast.

I get what you are saying, they are pretty bad as I have found most ground based lords are compared to flyers.

[Dillinius Sandar]

Originally posted by -Singularity-:

Originally posted by Dillinius Sandar:

the raise dead spell has extremely short range, especially compared to how far most ranged units can fire, and I never get flanked as Vamps, I always flank, the only problem is when my flanking force has to get through a bunch of elite enemy cavalry first. And saying why not just use vampires lords instead defeats the point of what i'm saying, that the corpse carts are cool and is a bummer they're so vulnerable. I like unit variety, if I cared about META i'd be running around with 20 stacks of varghulfs/terrorgheists which is super lame to me.

I would also like to say unless you've barely played vamps, there's no way you haven't lost corpse carts/necro's. They are 90% of the time the first things to die in my battles (to ranged) even when i'm massively superior to the enemy and most of those times they're the only things to die in my army.

You can extend the range of raise dead in the skill tree. If you have a flying lord range doesn't matter that much and they all have raise dead. He can drop zombies anywhere on the battlefield.

Vamps are one of my 3 top races to play, and one of the few I bothered to keep playing to a long victory on vh/vh. If you are losing carts you are bring them up too fast.

You basically stated one of my gripes, you practically have to keep carts 200 meters behind the front line until all ranged are dead, then ride them up at a snails pace. Absolute fun killer for me personally.

I think another issue to me is how the AI focus fires so much it's an absolute fun killer. Having to micro single entity units because every single enemy ranged units are absolutely melting them is so dumb. Again I know players do it all the time but I don't want to face an AI that uses every sweat lord strategy that players use to kill my units. I'd rather handicap myself to keep battles somewhat balanced (like forcing myself to never pause/ savescum, etc) than have the AI use annoying, fun killing tactics (like the goofy artillery dodging they use to have).

[Ashley]

You don't need to wait for them to be dead vampire counts have plenty of fliers, cav, warhounds to tie down any ranged and eat them up

[Dillinius Sandar]

Originally posted by Ashley:

You don't need to wait for them to be dead vampire counts have plenty of fliers, cav, warhounds to tie down any ranged and eat them up

...i'm done repeating myself.

[Triple G]

Hmm - imho it doesn´t matter much, as the Vampire lords and heroes can solo any AI army. The rest is only there for backup, or basically roleplay reasons - so having them on a corpse cart is okay for the passive buffs, while the necromancer is in it for army passive buff, to have more mana recharge, and because You can recruit them at lvl 50 - occasionally they can cast a spell if need be.

Except You talk about multiplayer.

[Dillinius Sandar]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Hmm - imho it doesn´t matter much, as the Vampire lords and heroes can solo any AI army. The rest is only there for backup, or basically roleplay reasons - so having them on a corpse cart is okay for the passive buffs, while the necromancer is in it for army passive buff, to have more mana recharge, and because You can recruit them at lvl 50 - occasionally they can cast a spell if need be.

Except You talk about multiplayer.

no ones mentioned multiplayer and i'd like to see you solo a late game AI doomstack with a lone vampire lord or ....a hero.

[Dinvan]

I still have no idea why people even play VC in campaign anymore. They just feel so horrible to play now.

[Triple G]

Originally posted by Dillinius Sandar:

no ones mentioned multiplayer and i'd like to see you solo a late game AI doomstack with a lone vampire lord or ....a hero.

Forget my post - i haven´t seen that You meant the lord. I thought You were talking about Necromancers in general.

But anyways - i meant 1 lord, and 2 vampire heroes.

While i personally would only recruit bloodline lords, and there the Necrarch lord would have a dragon. So i didn´t think about the necromancer lord. Wouldn´t recruit them to begin with - even if i needed more lords. I´d rather take any other lord.

[Dillinius Sandar]

Originally posted by Dinvan:

I still have no idea why people even play VC in campaign anymore. They just feel so horrible to play now.

I've come to feel this way, they're way overdue for a revamp. I've quit playing them until then.

[FizzMan]

Originally posted by -Singularity-:

Originally posted by Dillinius Sandar:

the raise dead spell has extremely short range, especially compared to how far most ranged units can fire, and I never get flanked as Vamps, I always flank, the only problem is when my flanking force has to get through a bunch of elite enemy cavalry first. And saying why not just use vampires lords instead defeats the point of what i'm saying, that the corpse carts are cool and is a bummer they're so vulnerable. I like unit variety, if I cared about META i'd be running around with 20 stacks of varghulfs/terrorgheists which is super lame to me.

I would also like to say unless you've barely played vamps, there's no way you haven't lost corpse carts/necro's. They are 90% of the time the first things to die in my battles (to ranged) even when i'm massively superior to the enemy and most of those times they're the only things to die in my army.

You can extend the range of raise dead in the skill tree. If you have a flying lord range doesn't matter that much and they all have raise dead. He can drop zombies anywhere on the battlefield.

Vamps are one of my 3 top races to play, and one of the few I bothered to keep playing to a long victory on vh/vh. If you are losing carts you are bring them up too fast.

I get what you are saying, they are pretty bad as I have found most ground based lords are compared to flyers.

Top 3 races? What are the others?

Very intriguing considering they've yet to get any new lords, a overhaul or DLC.

What makes them more fun then the others for you?