Best deeps buildings?

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Curious what others are thinking of the deeps buildings so far? I'm still early on and only have the guild halls for recruitment cost and research rate, what would ya'll prioritize?

[ruchihopaire]

Originally posted by bmnoble981:

Just a heads up, at least for me the deeps are blocking the ability to recruit new lords above level 1, the buffs to their recruitment level from techs and buildings don't seem to apply unless you recruit them from one of the other regions in the province or settlements without deeps built.

There's a workaround - open the lord recruit window, and WITHOUT closing it click on another settlement - then it applies properly. Won't help with replacing lords though.

The deeps are riddiculously strong, definitely go for the global bonuses. I always choose the repurposed building versions, though oathgold smelting could be useful if you're low on money. I don't understand how anyone can even consider the non-repurposed guild foundries unless you're VERY heavily turtling - with repurposed ones by turn 60ish you can have free buildings and free armies. I'm making 700k by turn 80, have a couple milion in the bank, 100k oathgold, and the only thing I'm paying for are more deep buildings, while also recruiting stacks of free thunderbarges as fast as I can (I'm literally blocked by how many new lords per turn I can recruit).

When I played belegar after thrones of decay my expansion was heavily slowed down by building costs, especially after getting the +2 pop techonology. I just couldn't afford building up my settlements, so now I consider the oathgold building a noob trap - you need the reduced construction cost to be able to expand, as dwarf buildings are expensive (played a skaven campaign next and was blown away by how cheap all their stuff is in comparison), only after building up I would get the oathgold branch. And now thanks to the bonus oathgold from mine and guild foundries there's really no reason not to choose the industry branch. Allows you to get free buildings even earlier.

[Tenhys]

Originally posted by ruchihopaire:

with repurposed ones by turn 60ish you can have free buildings and free armies. I'm making 700k by turn 80, have a couple milion in the bank, 100k oathgold, and the only thing I'm paying for are more deep buildings, while also recruiting stacks of free thunderbarges as fast as I can (I'm literally blocked by how many new lords per turn I can recruit).

Wow, that's insane. Haven't played Dwarves in a while, care to share some early game tips to achieve this level of cheeselordiness, please ?

[ruchihopaire]

Originally posted by Tenhys:

Wow, that's insane. Haven't played Dwarves in a while, care to share some early game tips to achieve this level of cheeselordiness, please ?

There's no trick to it, really. Just focus as much as possible on deeps and it'll come.
The deeps are a big investment which WILL hurt your campaign in the short term, but in the long run they are extremely worth it.
I think you have to start building deeps early, because the upgrade to the aboveground building is cheap (100 oathgold base) but takes a really long time, and cost reduction to new deeps is crucial to get the snowball rolling. More deeps early means a lot more deeps later.

The underground deep buildings get absolutely no cost reductions from ANYTHING (they do however get -1 turn build time from tech), so you want to cut building costs elsewhere to be able to funnel as much money as possible into them.
Some ways to do that:
- build industry instead of commerce - you can get enough oathgold from deep buildings, and industry will also make gates cheaper
- rush zharr-naggrund - the special deep there gives global -10% construction cost
- confederate belegar early for -30% main settlement building cost
- grungni trait cheese
- going strait for construction guilds tech - this is ESSSENTIAL anyway to make deeps viable outside of mountains, and unlock build slots for free
- maybe go for the wood elf legendary grudge for another -10% build cost reduction?

I played as Malakai. The -15% cost reduction for gyro spam really helps in the early game, and also helps reach the critical point of free armies earlier. Getting adventure bonuses also helps a lot. Since early game deeps only really work in mountains you're pretty much forced to go into norsca - another reason to use gyros, since they work really well there. After that I went for chaos dwarfs ie. zharr-naggrund. I'd avoid going into chaos wastes early, red territory will sap your money (later down the track even red territory buildings are free). If demons start war with you it's probably better to sell their territory to boris.
The obvious choices for building are repurposed guild foundries and repurposed counting rooms as well as deep mines for some earl cash.
Goldsmiths can be risky - repurposed ones have no drawbacks, but you need time to upgrade them and the first tier will consume oathgold quickly, which might lead to a deadlock since you need oathgold for the upgrade - if you build too many at the same time you won't be able to upgrade them (if that happens remember you can recycle items for some quick oathgold boost). Going commerce aboveground and goldsmitsh for money might be viable alternative to industry, but I haven't tested it. Do note however that non-repurposed goldsmiths lower control, and you want it high to get upkeep reduction from counting halls.
Early game oathgold is tight - I built a couple of commerce buildings in one-region provinces (hell pit and erengrad), since you won't be able to stack industry cost reduction there anyway. Another reason for gyro spam - prospector's mail is cheaper than ironwarden's tankard.

Mind you, I play on VH, can't say how viable it is to pay for deeps in early game on legendary, but like I said, while I agree that they're very costly, they're also worth it.

[arcseed]

I feel like it's better to go for the regular guild foundries, at least at first. It takes a while for the 2% to add up, while going for the money bonus in a capitol with an extra income building or two can be worth thousands of gold per turn that can immediately be used to snowball your economy and war machine.

[ik vind geschiedenis leuk]

I play on easy, and I am still taking a while to get free armies (I used an old save at turn 95 or something, and then continued 30 or so turns, so it could take a while), however, it still is going well, I am able to pay my current upkeep 5 times with my trade only, and the rest also is going well.

p.s. does anyone know what "foreign slot income" is, is it just the deeps

[StrangestEcho]

Originally posted by Questionable:

The one that increases income by 5% per turn is nutty if you have a settlement with big money generating resources and/or landmarks. Sure it loses 5% of its effect per settlement you control but its based on total turns that've passed in the entire game not just since it was constructed, so by turn 80 you'll be getting a 300+% (accounting for a -100% or so from settlements owned) bonus to building gold generation

This update made me realize how bad most players are at this game. Only 20 settlements on turn 80? You should be losing money with that building by then and more or less have every legendary lord confederated.

[Tenhys]

Originally posted by ruchihopaire:

Originally posted by Tenhys:

Wow, that's insane. Haven't played Dwarves in a while, care to share some early game tips to achieve this level of cheeselordiness, please ?

There's no trick to it, really. Just focus as much as possible on deeps and it'll come.
The deeps are a big investment which WILL hurt your campaign in the short term, but in the long run they are extremely worth it.
I think you have to start building deeps early, because the upgrade to the aboveground building is cheap (100 oathgold base) but takes a really long time, and cost reduction to new deeps is crucial to get the snowball rolling. More deeps early means a lot more deeps later.

The underground deep buildings get absolutely no cost reductions from ANYTHING (they do however get -1 turn build time from tech), so you want to cut building costs elsewhere to be able to funnel as much money as possible into them.
Some ways to do that:
- build industry instead of commerce - you can get enough oathgold from deep buildings, and industry will also make gates cheaper
- rush zharr-naggrund - the special deep there gives global -10% construction cost
- confederate belegar early for -30% main settlement building cost
- grungni trait cheese
- going strait for construction guilds tech - this is ESSSENTIAL anyway to make deeps viable outside of mountains, and unlock build slots for free
- maybe go for the wood elf legendary grudge for another -10% build cost reduction?

I played as Malakai. The -15% cost reduction for gyro spam really helps in the early game, and also helps reach the critical point of free armies earlier. Getting adventure bonuses also helps a lot. Since early game deeps only really work in mountains you're pretty much forced to go into norsca - another reason to use gyros, since they work really well there. After that I went for chaos dwarfs ie. zharr-naggrund. I'd avoid going into chaos wastes early, red territory will sap your money (later down the track even red territory buildings are free). If demons start war with you it's probably better to sell their territory to boris.
The obvious choices for building are repurposed guild foundries and repurposed counting rooms as well as deep mines for some earl cash.
Goldsmiths can be risky - repurposed ones have no drawbacks, but you need time to upgrade them and the first tier will consume oathgold quickly, which might lead to a deadlock since you need oathgold for the upgrade - if you build too many at the same time you won't be able to upgrade them (if that happens remember you can recycle items for some quick oathgold boost). Going commerce aboveground and goldsmitsh for money might be viable alternative to industry, but I haven't tested it. Do note however that non-repurposed goldsmiths lower control, and you want it high to get upkeep reduction from counting halls.
Early game oathgold is tight - I built a couple of commerce buildings in one-region provinces (hell pit and erengrad), since you won't be able to stack industry cost reduction there anyway. Another reason for gyro spam - prospector's mail is cheaper than ironwarden's tankard.

Mind you, I play on VH, can't say how viable it is to pay for deeps in early game on legendary, but like I said, while I agree that they're very costly, they're also worth it.

Wow. Thanks for the detailed reply. that's sound advices if i ever read one.

Confederating Belegar definitely sounds like the most promising first step. But as for rushing Zharr-Naggrund... i'm more skeptical; the Orcs are definitely not a welcomng sight near this parts and the Chaos Dwarves garrison is ANYTHING but weak (especially early-game.)

[ik vind geschiedenis leuk]

Originally posted by StrangestEcho:

Originally posted by Questionable:

The one that increases income by 5% per turn is nutty if you have a settlement with big money generating resources and/or landmarks. Sure it loses 5% of its effect per settlement you control but its based on total turns that've passed in the entire game not just since it was constructed, so by turn 80 you'll be getting a 300+% (accounting for a -100% or so from settlements owned) bonus to building gold generation

This update made me realize how bad most players are at this game. Only 20 settlements on turn 80? You should be losing money with that building by then and more or less have every legendary lord confederated.

people projecting 80/20 doesn't mean it is their common pace, it means they think it viable, if every of the 20 settlements has a guild foundry you would make 80 settlements worth of income, it would be better if it were factionwide or you could make both versions in a settlement, since with it only being for the settlement I prefer the -2% global upkeep combined with the -1% from the counting rooms. I hope that in a minor update they will make both repurposed and normal at the same time possible, improve the seal the holds(it should at least at walls regardless, maybe even a special minor deep settlement map with walls deeper within, and maybe more building option to help your military

[Homytus]

The income increase by turn can be nice at start.

Use it for take some cities and fun fact, you can demolished (one rank at time) and go for global after.
It makes you just free armies. Don't forget to max them for regain your decree and gain another one.

First try with thorgrim, with 80 settlements at turn 70/80 i reswap for global bonus. 30 turns later i got like 210 + now.

It's fun but you need to burn like 100k or 200k when it's start to growth, unless you put some provinces in auto build, it takes some times.

[Asyrian]

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by Dreagon:

Karak Eight Peaks used to be the capital of the dwarves so that's why you can move it there.

Ahh I thought it was just a very important city, wait so does that mean Belegar's family were the original high kings or something?

Belegars family wasnt high kings family and it wasnt the capital just the second biggest city as rich and powerful as karaz a karak. And so potential capital as belegar once was a candidate for being high king but thorgrim had the bigger ambitions and did the greater deeds.