Unending disappointment for dlc's

[Shifty Shoes]

I have been a long time player going on 4 years now and I an amazing fan of the setting and world. I am also a huge fan of of the Dwarfs and was really excited when I saw they had a dlc coming out. Now before the Dlc the Dwarfs had some big problems don't get me wrong, they played super tall, they had very little variance in their armies, their ranged game was bested by most reworked/new factions and their was little about them that was special.

The Dlc fixed a lot of those things, the age of reckoning pushes you to attack more and expand deeper and greedily than if Gimili was given cocaine and a glock in the fellowship. the airship and unit changes allow for a very good variance in armies so you can have a far more dynamic fighting force thats fun to play with.

But I'm still so disappointed in it who's ever idea it was to go all slayers was such an ass. for those who don't know or don't play the faction to much slayers are an elite specialised infantry to either go after large or infantry sized targets and their special gimmick is that they are unbreakable, to make sure this is fair CA gave them the speed of heavy infantry as well as no amour. For those wondering what that actually means let me be clear no amour is light amour like 1-40 its 0, anything that deals the slightest damage can annihilate them. Peasant bowmen, skaven slave slingers, goblin archers all destroy them any chaff force can do alot of damage. However the thing I've always found so funny which no one really knows, the best way to kill any slayer unit is to charge them with cav do the shock damage and then leave refresh and do it again. they're stupid and come so unrecommended if you're learning dwarfs unless they're are large targets. and no the new slayers aren't good either the anti-infantry will only ever give you value if they fight the highest tier of units in which they will be next to dead anyway after whatever fight their in, and the slayer pirates are so commedically bad just use thunderers or grudge rakers.

Now people say CA did this because all of the Dwarf roster is already in the game and these are the only things left to add in since the Dwarfs in tabletop have a very limited roster. This is true but also the worst excuse known to man and all you have to do is look at other factions. the vampire coast isn't on table top and before WH3 niether was kislev or Cathay they had their roster pulled from obscure sources and a bit of creative liberty and made them. to say they can't do the same for dwarfs is a lie. the reason they did it was because it was the easiest path so they just did a massive cop out and before someone says "oH He WaNtS DwArF CaLvArY ImMErSiOn BrEaK REEEEEEE", no i want supply wagons and bugman ale carts things that could actually be useful and god forbid something large to give my lines some mass.

Now if you've read this far then you know I'm probably a little passionate about this and i have one last grudge I need to get off my chest. I have brought it up a good 5 times now on the discussion board and I'm getting really sick of it. The Dwarf economy, Needs. To. Be. Buffed. let them build both economic buildings not just one per settlement. the dwarfs since the beginning of WH3 have had the weakest economy of any faction in the game with its main economic building being at least 100 gold lower than every other main economic building in the game at tier 3 which is the highest a minor settlement can go. Don't bring up trade every faction has trade, don't bring up skills on lords they go to a max of 9% off it doesn't do anything, and do not bring up the research tree every faction has it too. there is nothing special about the dwarfs economy, its just bad. fix it. you have such a clear and easy way to do so. just do it.

[Psychomeld]

Maybe you just don't like the dwarves

[Shifty Shoes]

this comment has simply left me a broken man

[Aleera]

Beg pardon OP.
But Dwarfs have mass via their research.

And the slayers, well many of these slayer variants have been requested since launch.

[Shifty Shoes]

Messaggio originale di Rianne:

Beg pardon OP.
But Dwarfs have mass via their research.

And the slayers, well many of these slayer variants have been requested since launch.

their mass isn't and never will be equal to that of monsters and cav, thats the point of having monsters and cav for every other faction in the game.

and saying these units have been requested since launch has two major problems. firstly, its the third game they have had 8 years and a previous dlc in which to add them if they were so requested.

Secondly, a lot of units have been requested not just for dwarfs but every faction. Bugmans carts were heavily requested, same with crank gunners as well not to mention monstrous units like a shard dragon they haven't been added. saying they were requested stops making sense when everything else was too. the reason the slayers were added is because it was probably alot easier and cheaper to make and animate the models plus they needed to fix an old lord they didn't bother to fix for ages. its not answering the call of the people its just being lazy

[Triple G]

Messaggio originale di Shifty Shoes:

the reason the slayers were added is because it was probably alot easier and cheaper to make and animate the models

They´re probably remodels though. Not reskins. Which means: they add content, which is worth pure money.

Else:

Aren´t Dwarfs the best auto-resolve faction any more? They used to be the most convenient faction, as You could pick Your manual fights. And they had a rather good economy - and no tier 5 units, so they got strong rather fast.

[abyssalfury]

#1, TL: DR.
#2, if you're a Dwarf player, isn't their defining trait that they like ****ing about everything, and so CA are giving you exactly what you want?

[Aleera]

Messaggio originale di Shifty Shoes:

their mass isn't and never will be equal to that of monsters and cav, thats the point of having monsters and cav for every other faction in the game.

I should hope not that their mass equals monsters, they're infantry. A monster has 1 model, infantry has up to 100 models for Dwarfs.

Take Ironbreakers, a base 250 mass per model. Slap their research and use their ability. You now have the best line infantry that has 500 mass per model.
That means 2 infantry models have equal mass to 1 Empire knight.
A arachnorok has 4000 mass, meaning 8/9 ironbreaker models can and will block it from moving.
I'm going to assume the Rogue idol has the most mass out of all units with 12000. That's 24/25 ironbreaker models.

And you claim Dwarfs lack mass?

Messaggio originale di Shifty Shoes:

and saying these units have been requested since launch has two major problems. firstly, its the third game they have had 8 years and a previous dlc in which to add them if they were so requested.

Sure, they could have, but then we'd lack Rangers etc. They simply were one of the last units left that had actual models.

Messaggio originale di Shifty Shoes:

Secondly, a lot of units have been requested not just for dwarfs but every faction. Bugmans carts were heavily requested, same with crank gunners as well not to mention monstrous units like a shard dragon they haven't been added. saying they were requested stops making sense when everything else was too. the reason the slayers were added is because it was probably alot easier and cheaper to make and animate the models plus they needed to fix an old lord they didn't bother to fix for ages. its not answering the call of the people its just being lazy

No, the point is you whined that they added slayers, while it's clear they were a heavily requested unit.

We get it, you don't want slayers, you don't like using them. Doesn't mean others can't enjoy them.

[an entire Roman legion]

reading this gave me a headache

[Mr_MeGusta]

Maybe its cause I play on normal difficulty where neither me nor the AI get bonuses but slayers are amazing if lead by a Daemon Slayer. You get Tapestry of oaths for increased weapon strength, ritualist scarring to increase their resistance, and slayers to me to increase replenishment and reduce upkeep.

[Reaver79]

Messaggio originale di Shifty Shoes:

and saying these units have been requested since launch has two major problems. firstly, its the third game they have had 8 years and a previous dlc in which to add them if they were so requested.

Maybe that comes down to the game not being Total war dwarf hammer.. There are other factions, and every f***ing moron out there constantly whining when there's something they wanted that ain't in the game.. There's some 20 factions or so, and everybody has something they want to see in the game, and funny enough they all take time to implement.

[Shifty Shoes]

this got way more attention then i thought it would which is rather surprising, I'll go down the list and see where we end up.

triple G
you are right they probably did remodel not reskin, which is fair it saves a lot of time and money. but you would still get 80% of the new models from old models and their not nearly as impressive as say the frost wyrm. don't get me wrong it is worth money and i do agree with you but I'm more saying it isn't worth pure money.

also I'm not sure who is the auto resolve king now days it definitely used to be dwarfs but i believe much like their economy that was warhammer 2.

AbyssalFurry
that's very fair its a super long rant that's kind of meaningless. for the tldr i want them to fix the dwarfs economy and I'm mildly disgruntled. but thinking about it you could be absolutely right and in some ways i have never felt more like a dwarf.

Rianne
buddy you need to start getting better arguments. the mass of an infantry unit only goes so far and to be any point of useful you need to do a full envelopment which is hard to do cause the dwarfs are slow. and furthermore, you can still simply force path you're way through them if you're a competent player. so yes the dwarfs lack mass that's a problem they've always had.

you mentioned that slayers were one of the last table top units, i already went through and mentioned that its a bad point to be made at this point. you then didn't read the argument about requested units so I'll just move on. if you like a unit its not my place to gatekeep you enjoying it. i love making a dread saurain stack as the lizardmen its not practical and its super dumb but im still gonna keep doing it. have fun and you do you, i really couldn't care. I'm just saying it doesn't help with the problems i find with the dawrfs.

Albob
thats super fair im really bad at writing and this was far more a thing of "passion" so im sorry it probably is written really poorly.

Mr_MeGusta
don't get me wrong slayers are still an elite infantry and they can definitely back up that claim, i just find them super squishy and not worth the hassle it is to use them most of the time. but, you will also always find that even the worst units can be extremely good if you build the right army like Repanse de Lyonesse and her peasant mob tide or Herman Gorst with zombies. or if you need a non legendary lord the skaven master assassin with gutter runners is the first one that springs to mind.

Reaver79
so firstly i suggest calming down. yes there are a lot of factions in the game and a lot of them need work and there will always be things that people want in the game that aren't in it that's usually the point of mods. that being said this is literally the time to focus on the dwarfs its their paid dlc its CA putting a sign up saying its dwarf season and before you say something, yes its also empire and nurgle season too. this is the thing that CA has been building too and taking their time to implement. im also asking for a change to their economy not just units so they play better and fit more with the lore of the faction.

[Psychomeld]

Playing as the dwarves right now. Have no issues with their economy. They have probably one of the strongest economies in the game alongside cheaper yet sturdy armies. Slayers are niche units that don't need to be in every army, and it depends on what type of faction you are fighting. Norscans, Undead, Daemons, Chaos, Lizardmen, basically anything without ranged? Great idea! Anything else? Maybe field 1-2 if that. I go back to my first comment it just doesn't seem like you like dwarves and that is ok, but them as a faction are really strong.

[sentry]

I don't think CA is in a position to manufacture brand new units without any tabletop basis. and GW seems to vet almost all of their additions. This has definitely come up in live streams. I understand the frustration that the added units in TOD were of no interest to you, but it's not entirely on the devs here as this was probably given the thumbs up by GW.

Slayers are specialized units that require more micro and care vs the rest of the roster, and this is just something to learn about and deal with if Dwarfs are to remain your favorite faction.

[Reaver79]

Messaggio originale di Shifty Shoes:

Reaver79
so firstly i suggest calming down.

No need for me to calm down, i am so chill i dont need ice in my drinks..
Yes it was a dwarf DLC, and they certainly got a lot of stuff, and good stuff as well.
Their economy is and always has been strong, if you have problem with it i honestly think it is a you problem (no offense).
Their new mechanic is just stupidly easy and very strong.. Play and you get bonus++ units.. Yea.. Sure.. Why not...
If they where to fit with lore, they would be hiding in their keeps, slowly dying out.

[Talilover]

Well I don't actually have the dlc (managed to play around with some of the stuff through confederations at least tho) but feel like I can address some of the stuff you said.

First off, regarding slayers you are totally wrong lol. Slayers were not either anti-infantry or anti-large, they were anti-large and anti-large with armor piercing (the dlc adding anti-infantry doomseekers) and are markedly faster than other dwarf infantry, closest you're getting to dwarf Calvary. Speaking of Calvary hard disagree on cycle charging the anti-large infantry with Calvary being the best way to deal with them, you were on the right track at first when you brought up ranged units. If Calvary pull out game wasn't so horrendously weak in this game that the only solution CA could come up with is "I dunno, less models?" I could see where you were coming from but as of now each charge risks half of your unit just shrugging their shoulders as you desperately click on some part of the map to get them to leave. This all comes together to me not being really sure what the problem is with the fast (for a dwarf) shock infantry that's entire lore purpose is to die being a hard hitting sock of nickles that can't last under heavy missile fire, if you're struggling to get their value out of them (which is always an uphill battle for melee infantry) maybe you just need to get used to them? Slayer pirates aren't comically bad nor are they an proposed alternative to thunderers, not sure why you seem to think as such.

You mention the dwarf lines needing some mass...lol. I know Dread Saurians can still walk right through them and you may find that unacceptable but the truth is there is no sturdier front line than the Dwarven front line (even before the tech tree, which you seem to want to dismiss, cranking that up to 11). Other people here seem to have tackled the whole "why add these instead this?" thing so guess I don't need to talk about that.

Lastly regarding economy, idk worked for me man. I only play on very hard campaign difficulty so maybe legendary just breaks the bank but throughout the campaign I was comfortably affording plenty of high tier armies. I'm not claiming they're the strongest economy of the game (not sure which one is actually) but hey, not every body can be the strongest and as long as I'm not fighting bankruptcy my entire campaign I really don't care.