Why is fire lore considered so good?

[Lampros]

It has a lot of damage spells, but what's so special about those damage spells? They don't seem to stand out so much for me?

[Garatgh Deloi]

The spells themselves are decent, but since it uses the fire damage channel they have situational extras making them a good choice over other lores (depending on who you are playing as off course, the lore of Tzeentch for example also gets fire damage for most of its damage spells).

Its very good against units with health regen since fire damage halves their regen rate. Then we also have the fact that fire vulnerability is a thing (Your fire lore passive even makes enemies vulnerable to fire for a bit). It also has a bonus damage to buildings, but that that is even more situational and rarely makes a difference.

Compare that to other lores of magic, there is no death/ice/shadow/light/beasts/etc damage channel, thus no vulnerability effect for them in the game, those other lores don't effect health regen, etc.

Off course fire admittedly also has the downside of fire resistance being a thing.

[Jukelo]

Fireball is long ranged, accurate, cheap, can actually reduce the DPS of artillery batteries by killing models, and remains decent against blobs if geometry permits.

Flaming head deletes chaff, great at hitting archer lines.

Piercing bolts has perfect coverage for hitting single units with high armor, can also do good damage against large SEMs.

Flamestorm is a blob killer, although my least used.

[Farsha]

In most cases it is the best dmg lore of magic.
And ultimately your goal is to kill opossition troops as fast as possible , with minimal losses to trigger army loss penalty.
Lore of fire with baiting AI to blob up might be the best for that.

But depends on how you use magic, life magic might be still better overall with how strong single entities can get in this game.

All depends on your army, opposong army, your playstyle and experience.

Healing Archeon with nurgle sorcerer is all you need to kill the whole world for example.

[Professor H. Farnsworth]

Oh oh oh!..

Because no one but Vamps gets Lore of Vampires and as such don't get the: Let me just delete your entire army Wind of Death, so people make do with Lore of Fire, because it's... The best they got.

That's not to say it's "the best".. It's circumstantial as heck.

Lore of Light is great for pure ranged armies
Tzeenth can delete armies as well - quite cheap even..
Nurgle (if you can get them in a nice big blop) can delete armies.
Lore of Life is great if you got single entities
Lore of Hazhut is like Nurgle on Steroids.

So mmm... Really depends how you use them.

[abyssalfury]

One of Fire's big things is that it tends to be a bit cheaper than other damage spells; not necessarily a huge amount, but it means more casts per battle. Combined with having pretty much every type of damage spell, it's just generally good at it's job even if it doesn't have the BEST damage spells.

There's also potential interactions with fire damage that can make it a bit better for some armies/factions.

[valky]

Originally posted by Professor H. Farnsworth:

Oh oh oh!..

Because no one but Vamps gets Lore of Vampires and as such don't get the: Let me just delete your entire army Wind of Death, so people make do with Lore of Fire, because it's... The best they got.

That's not to say it's "the best".. It's circumstantial as heck.

Lore of Light is great for pure ranged armies
Tzeenth can delete armies as well - quite cheap even..
Nurgle (if you can get them in a nice big blop) can delete armies.
Lore of Life is great if you got single entities
Lore of Hazhut is like Nurgle on Steroids.

So mmm... Really depends how you use them.

Lore of High M actually has the better wind-spell....could be argued with, but I like the higher damage and the much faster wind-speed.
I actually wanna see, how your preferred wind-spell deletes an entire army of lizards in one cast :)
Might work against Skinks, but saurus have such a stupid loose formation, that your wind-spell does next to nothing. And my dinosaurs laugh at your attempt to damage them ^^

anyway, @topic:
I think it is situational and depends on ones preference.
Some like to heal their armies to death, while other like to damage them instead.
And fire has at least one very powerful utility spell as well: Flaming Sword of Ruin!

Fire is usually my most fancied Lore with Norsca + Empire, but I usually switch in between metal+fire. Depends on my mood and how my army is designed around it.

Also: decent wind, vortex & bombardment, hard to find that in any other lore.

It's like using Lore of Beasts for any other faction then Beastmen. For them it really works fine with literally any single spell and the debuffs are basically tailor-made.

[SarmatII]

Lore of Life is best.

Dwellers Below is still the best AoE damage spell due to its large radius, zero random movement which fire flame storm suffers badly from, and it does a lot of AP dmg.

Its really only rivaled by Skaven plague aoe, which is also one of the strongest aoe spell.

Ofc, heals, buffs etc.

Fire is highly unreliable. Burning head likes to detour, low AP dmg meh.

[SarmatII]

For raw damage dealing, even Heavens is better. Comet = big aoe dmg, no random movement. Chain Lightning = strong AP dmg, very cheap cost and cheap low cost lighting bolts are great vs weapon team or artillery.

Fire is very overrated.

[valky]

^ *hmm*
Pit of Shades :)

As I said, players have their preferences in how they use their preferred lore. It actually has to fit with your playstyle too.
Gave other 'recommended' Lores in various games a try, but most often it is just *meh* and I find me lacking something, that am used to. Not that they are bad, but it's just not complete. (hard to describe)

Good example is my Khalida-campaign; I was used to Nehekara-lore and liked it, but with so many changes done to their starting positions and enemies I adapted Lore of Light *yay*

[also: fire was the most abusive lore, when you could scam sieges with cheap bombardment spells ^^ and of course: WARP LIGHTENING.
If the AI positioned themselves behind the gate in a serious long line, so you bounce off burning head at least once! twice the damage = twice the fun]

Oh, and while the AI dodges certain spells: it does NOT dodge wind spell *wicked laugh*

[[MadTs] Phyrys]

I like using flaming swords of Rhuin. If only it could have some melee attack boost it would be absolutely perfect, but it's not 'Ere we go. Like all buffs or debuffs, the AI (and some players since it's sneaky enough) doesn't react to it.

Then they realize their trolls/undead/spawns/Louen died for seemingly no reason at all, because that's what happens when halberders or handgunners suddently thrust or shoots pure fire at you.

[valky]

Originally posted by MadTs Phyrys:

I like using flaming swords of Rhuin.

!

It became so powerful with the introduction of Drycha, WoC and units, that have an init phys-res..
It targets AoE without overcast! Can be applied to literal any unit and just works....

Lore of Shadows has to overcast for the AoE, but has other very powerful utility spells, specially against Lords. With 'magical attacks' in mind and it does only boost melee.

[SpeaksTooFast]

I like the lore of fire but it has a few weaknesses. It is great when fighting factions who use trolls or other units with regen. It is much weaker against factions that have innate fire resistance that can stack with spell resistance. It pairs really well with the lore of nurgle or hashut but if I only have one caster in my army I've been using it a lot less.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

The spells themselves are decent, but since it uses the fire damage channel they have situational extras making them a good choice over other lores (depending on who you are playing as off course, the lore of Tzeentch for example also gets fire damage for most of its damage spells).

Its very good against units with health regen since fire damage halves their regen rate. Then we also have the fact that fire vulnerability is a thing (Your fire lore passive even makes enemies vulnerable to fire for a bit). It also has a bonus damage to buildings, but that that is even more situational and rarely makes a difference.

Compare that to other lores of magic, there is no death/ice/shadow/light/beasts/etc damage channel, thus no vulnerability effect for them in the game, those other lores don't effect health regen, etc.

Off course fire admittedly also has the downside of fire resistance being a thing.

Ah, okay; I didn't consider the passive ability of the casters. So I guess it's good if you bring a lot of fire damage units? I do realize that it's good against regenerating enemies.

Originally posted by Jukelo:

Fireball is long ranged, accurate, cheap, can actually reduce the DPS of artillery batteries by killing models, and remains decent against blobs if geometry permits.

Flaming head deletes chaff, great at hitting archer lines.

Piercing bolts has perfect coverage for hitting single units with high armor, can also do good damage against large SEMs.

Flamestorm is a blob killer, although my least used.

Yeah, I just noticed that Flaming Head is only good for un-armored trash. I've heard people praise it to skies, and I was wondering why it was doing jack against Chaos Warriors! ;)

Originally posted by Farsha:

In most cases it is the best dmg lore of magic.
And ultimately your goal is to kill opossition troops as fast as possible , with minimal losses to trigger army loss penalty.
Lore of fire with baiting AI to blob up might be the best for that.

But depends on how you use magic, life magic might be still better overall with how strong single entities can get in this game.

All depends on your army, opposong army, your playstyle and experience.

Healing Archeon with nurgle sorcerer is all you need to kill the whole world for example.

Life is indeed my favorite magic lore. But I was thinking of diversifying - especially given that I am an Empire main, and my Lords/Heroes are often not damage sponges with monstrous amount of HPs.

Originally posted by abyssalfury:

One of Fire's big things is that it tends to be a bit cheaper than other damage spells; not necessarily a huge amount, but it means more casts per battle. Combined with having pretty much every type of damage spell, it's just generally good at it's job even if it doesn't have the BEST damage spells.

There's also potential interactions with fire damage that can make it a bit better for some armies/factions.

Low cost is a good point. I don't always sweat economics (just like in real-life), but I should (just like in real-life!).

Originally posted by valky:

anyway, @topic:
I think it is situational and depends on ones preference.
Some like to heal their armies to death, while other like to damage them instead.
And fire has at least one very powerful utility spell as well: Flaming Sword of Ruin!

Fire is usually my most fancied Lore with Norsca + Empire, but I usually switch in between metal+fire. Depends on my mood and how my army is designed around it.

Also: decent wind, vortex & bombardment, hard to find that in any other lore.

It's like using Lore of Beasts for any other faction then Beastmen. For them it really works fine with literally any single spell and the debuffs are basically tailor-made.

I see. I don't play Norsca, but I guess I will experiment a lot more with Empire and Fire magic. Perhaps I can run a full Stirland crossbow line-up, with other fire damage units as well.

But can you explain why Gold lore is good with Empire outside of Gelt? I've never recruited a non-Gelt Gold user. And what spells specifically?

Originally posted by SarmatII:

For raw damage dealing, even Heavens is better. Comet = big aoe dmg, no random movement. Chain Lightning = strong AP dmg, very cheap cost and cheap low cost lighting bolts are great vs weapon team or artillery.

Fire is very overrated.

Hmm, I haven't read people praise Heavens much. Any particular races good with them? Or is Heavens a universally good lore?

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Hmm, I haven't read people praise Heavens much. Any particular races good with them? Or is Heavens a universally good lore?

Heavens is a really balanced lore, it has buffs, AoE debuffs, and a few good damage spells that all have their niche. Chain lightning for harassing enemy lines when not pinned down. Thunderbolt and Comet are both great damage spells when their units are pinned down.

If playing as empire the wizard also gets a passive that boosts the movement range which is always nice.

It actually pairs well with fire magic as flaming sword and burning head cover a few things that heavens does not have.

[Triple G]

Hmm - usually any spell which does much AoE damage and doesn´t move is much stronger. Because the good old tactic to let the AI blob around Yourself, and then cast a spell on Yourself, while the AI will support You and kill their own people if they have damage spells, which is nice.

Other than that: healing is nice.

Anything else is mainly roleplay.