buff Gor Herd (shield)

[Evil Panda]

last path fixed Gor Herd, making them a great unit finally after years, but Gor Herd (Shield) remains largely overpriced and outdated compared to similar units in terms of stat.

Gor Herd gain +6 WS and bonus vs infantry. i think giving the shield variant a weapon buff as well, something like +4, would be enough, as dual wielding would still be the clear offensive option while shielded the clear holding/defensive option, but with the ability to finally be cost effective.

Tzaangor as well, being based on them, could get the same weapon boost, as they are very bad for their price as well with abysmal 24 MA...at least make their WS decent.

[MadArtillery]

We can hope something gets done for them. Gors have always been so ungodly terrible

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by MadArtillery:

We can hope something gets done for them. Gors have always been so ungodly terrible

Gor Herd (dual wield) are honestly good now finally after ages ahaha. Shield variant would be decent even with just a cost of 500 instead of 550, but the main problem i have is their wimpy WS at just 30, barely above human swordmans at 400 points cost. they should be as strong as basic orc boys at 34, and tzaangors too honestly, considering pestigors have 32 but with AP for the same cost

[Fryskar]

I guess their problem is them beeing situative better than other inf in their price range which is already kind of non existant (low armored, shielded melee inf around 550 gold).

Primal fury, good speed (mind you, good not great) and vanguard deployment likely put them in an awkward niche.

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

I guess their problem is them beeing situative better than other inf in their price range which is already kind of non existant (low armored, shielded melee inf around 550 gold).

Primal fury, good speed (mind you, good not great) and vanguard deployment likely put them in an awkward niche.

all that attributes are of little use when you see their stats and when you actually test them in combat, they lose to 430 orc boys and to every 500 cost infantry, despite being more expensive. their appropriate cost would be 500 at best, or they should so more for their bucks.

now dual-wield is a solid unit because for 600 it has a clear role and the actual stat to fulfill them, why shielded variant is supposed to be the "tanky" variant, with only a decentish MD to fulfil that, but no armor, no LD, no useful traits...so they should at least do more damage to trade with other similar units or beat cheaper variants.

[Decomposed]

At least they buffed the dual weapons after ages. This was something.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Evil Panda:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

I guess their problem is them beeing situative better than other inf in their price range which is already kind of non existant (low armored, shielded melee inf around 550 gold).

Primal fury, good speed (mind you, good not great) and vanguard deployment likely put them in an awkward niche.

all that attributes are of little use when you see their stats and when you actually test them in combat, they lose to 430 orc boys and to every 500 cost infantry, despite being more expensive. their appropriate cost would be 500 at best, or they should so more for their bucks.

now dual-wield is a solid unit because for 600 it has a clear role and the actual stat to fulfill them, why shielded variant is supposed to be the "tanky" variant, with only a decentish MD to fulfil that, but no armor, no LD, no useful traits...so they should at least do more damage to trade with other similar units or beat cheaper variants.

Didn't i write pretty straight that their traits are putting them in a problematic niche?

I regard them as expensive archer resistant units rather than really tanky.

Iirc speed is one of the more expensive stats, so naturally gors should trade bad or outright lose in a fight where they can't make use of it. And fighting orc boys is a good example of such a fight, gor herds wS don't commonly lose vs boys, but due to tossing an expensive stat, they trade poor.

[valky]

you'd only need to play the campaign...and see them boosted up to 46MA.
Tzaangoors are actually nice, to hold the line, while Pestigors hammer them.

every shi8tty gor in your roster gets to 40+MA with ease.


Your fault of actually playing them in MP...because no one cares about MP ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. and if ypou pay 400 or 500 for a unit.

because IT DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL

edit: go back to the CA-board and whine some more

and there is still the BM ambush.....must be a you-issue.

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Originally posted by Evil Panda:

all that attributes are of little use when you see their stats and when you actually test them in combat, they lose to 430 orc boys and to every 500 cost infantry, despite being more expensive. their appropriate cost would be 500 at best, or they should so more for their bucks.

now dual-wield is a solid unit because for 600 it has a clear role and the actual stat to fulfill them, why shielded variant is supposed to be the "tanky" variant, with only a decentish MD to fulfil that, but no armor, no LD, no useful traits...so they should at least do more damage to trade with other similar units or beat cheaper variants.

Didn't i write pretty straight that their traits are putting them in a problematic niche?

I regard them as expensive archer resistant units rather than really tanky.

Iirc speed is one of the more expensive stats, so naturally gors should trade bad or outright lose in a fight where they can't make use of it. And fighting orc boys is a good example of such a fight, gor herds wS don't commonly lose vs boys, but due to tossing an expensive stat, they trade poor.

speed is a factor when you have 60 and the opponent 30, not when you have 35 vs 30...what you gonna do? disengage a unit an move to another target? taking increased damage from behind while doing so on an already squishy unit like gors? not gonna happen...

also as i've sayd, theyr have those traits yes, which are worth like 50 points for their usefulness, but even if gor costed 50 points less, at 500, they still would lose to 430 orc boys or basically any 450+ unit. i don't pay 550 for "a archer resistant unit" when i can pay 400 for shielded ungors for that... the simple fact is that both gor shield and tzaangors are incapable of trade fair in any given melee situation, which for a mele only unit it's a pretty big flaw.

shielded gors always had been balanced in contrast to dual wielding unit, the latter having no shield and less MD but more damage and MA. now dual wield have significantly more attack and damage, which makes pretty clear that both gors were outdated by a long shot, but now shielded variants shows even more

at 500 it would be a fine unit, or a 50 points worth of melee stats, and the same goes for tzaangors

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by valky:

you'd only need to play the campaign...and see them boosted up to 46MA.
Tzaangoors are actually nice, to hold the line, while Pestigors hammer them.

every shi8tty gor in your roster gets to 40+MA with ease.


Your fault of actually playing them in MP...because no one cares about MP ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. and if ypou pay 400 or 500 for a unit.

because IT DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL

edit: go back to the CA-board and whine some more

and there is still the BM ambush.....must be a you-issue.

it's not a me-issue, it's a multiplayer related issue, i'm obviously not talking about campaign where cost is not even a factor...

and yes, paying 400 or 500 for a unit does matter like A LOT in MP, since you have limited points every single one counts and if your opponent has more efficient unit for their cost, you simply lose, so what are you on?

[Fendelphi]

Gor(Shield) are mostly fine. They are the budget version of a Gor unit, which you get when you want some mobile cheap infantry with a bit more power than Ungor Herds. The only thing that might need a change is a further cost reduction(even 25 less gold would be fine IMO).
Tzaangors are good as is. Quite durable for their price and have magical attacks, decent armour and good shield(55%).

I see that some tries to compare Gors to Orc boyz, which makes it clear that they dont get the units at all.


Vanguard + 40 or more speed(38+10% from Primal Fury) makes for a very mobile infantry unit(all Gor variants). Having a 25-30% speed advantage over most infantry is only good if you utilize it.
If you want a more standard "frontline", you either go cheap with Ungor, or go expensive with Tzaangor. Or you play a different faction.

Gors(Shield) has 35 Melee Defense at base, allowing it to mitigate a decent amount of melee damage, and at 80 health per model, their are fairly robust. Ignoring 35% of small arms fired from the front makes their survivability against ranged units or skirmishers substantially better than their dual-wielding counter part.

It has 22 Charge Bonus at base(Empire Swordsmen have 14) and is affected by Primal Fury(+10%), and while the WS is not the highest, it does carry a large AP component(9 out of 30), meaning a similar proportion will be carried over to the charge bonus(about 7 of 22). Basically, they hit reasonable hard against even armoured targets.
Sure, it does not compare to the damage output of the dual-wield variant, but it is good enough for the job it is supposed to do.

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Gor(Shield) are mostly fine. They are the budget version of a Gor unit, which you get when you want some mobile cheap infantry with a bit more power than Ungor Herds. The only thing that might need a change is a further cost reduction(even 25 less gold would be fine IMO).
Tzaangors are good as is. Quite durable for their price and have magical attacks, decent armour and good shield(55%).

I see that some tries to compare Gors to Orc boyz, which makes it clear that they dont get the units at all.


Vanguard + 40 or more speed(38+10% from Primal Fury) makes for a very mobile infantry unit(all Gor variants). Having a 25-30% speed advantage over most infantry is only good if you utilize it.
If you want a more standard "frontline", you either go cheap with Ungor, or go expensive with Tzaangor. Or you play a different faction.

Gors(Shield) has 35 Melee Defense at base, allowing it to mitigate a decent amount of melee damage, and at 80 health per model, their are fairly robust. Ignoring 35% of small arms fired from the front makes their survivability against ranged units or skirmishers substantially better than their dual-wielding counter part.

It has 22 Charge Bonus at base(Empire Swordsmen have 14) and is affected by Primal Fury(+10%), and while the WS is not the highest, it does carry a large AP component(9 out of 30), meaning a similar proportion will be carried over to the charge bonus(about 7 of 22). Basically, they hit reasonable hard against even armoured targets.
Sure, it does not compare to the damage output of the dual-wield variant, but it is good enough for the job it is supposed to do.

ungor herd sucks as well as a frontline...the only viable frontline option is ungor spears just because they are cheaper and have anti large...

gor are not fine, it's a well established fact that they are underperforming since ages. you can't see a 550 unit lose badly to any 500 and around infantry even from those factions that are not supposed to have as good infantry as beastmen. orc boys are always going to be better then gors and that's fine because orcs are supposed to have stronger infantry, i merely used them as an example because they cost 120 less and they beat them even without waagh, but things like elven spearmen who are supposed to die to melee infantry like any spea unit? or other similar 500 or so units...

i heard people in the past sayd Gor Dual Wield were a great unit when it was clear as day they sucked, and infact they got a massive buff finally...the same goes for Shielded variant

tzaangors have the same problem because yeah they seem tanky, but they can't do damage like at all. they have 24 MA! this is clanrats level. and they have a trait to deal more damage with spell, only they can't use it because again they can't hit anything. they have even less MA then gor Shield from whom they are clearly based upon (24 vs 26)...it's clear as day there is something very bad in those units.

speed and vanguard and thing like that do net for something of course, so on equal value on 2 similar units, it is fine if they lose, but here the problem is they lose or trade horribly with intended cheape rtargets, which is something you don't see in other factions

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Evil Panda:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Gor(Shield) are mostly fine. They are the budget version of a Gor unit, which you get when you want some mobile cheap infantry with a bit more power than Ungor Herds. The only thing that might need a change is a further cost reduction(even 25 less gold would be fine IMO).
Tzaangors are good as is. Quite durable for their price and have magical attacks, decent armour and good shield(55%).

I see that some tries to compare Gors to Orc boyz, which makes it clear that they dont get the units at all.


Vanguard + 40 or more speed(38+10% from Primal Fury) makes for a very mobile infantry unit(all Gor variants). Having a 25-30% speed advantage over most infantry is only good if you utilize it.
If you want a more standard "frontline", you either go cheap with Ungor, or go expensive with Tzaangor. Or you play a different faction.

Gors(Shield) has 35 Melee Defense at base, allowing it to mitigate a decent amount of melee damage, and at 80 health per model, their are fairly robust. Ignoring 35% of small arms fired from the front makes their survivability against ranged units or skirmishers substantially better than their dual-wielding counter part.

It has 22 Charge Bonus at base(Empire Swordsmen have 14) and is affected by Primal Fury(+10%), and while the WS is not the highest, it does carry a large AP component(9 out of 30), meaning a similar proportion will be carried over to the charge bonus(about 7 of 22). Basically, they hit reasonable hard against even armoured targets.
Sure, it does not compare to the damage output of the dual-wield variant, but it is good enough for the job it is supposed to do.

ungor herd sucks as well as a frontline...the only viable frontline option is ungor spears just because they are cheaper and have anti large...

gor are not fine, it's a well established fact that they are underperforming since ages. you can't see a 550 unit lose badly to any 500 and around infantry even from those factions that are not supposed to have as good infantry as beastmen. orc boys are always going to be better then gors and that's fine because orcs are supposed to have stronger infantry, i merely used them as an example because they cost 120 less and they beat them even without waagh, but things like elven spearmen who are supposed to die to melee infantry like any spea unit? or other similar 500 or so units...

i heard people in the past sayd Gor Dual Wield were a great unit when it was clear as day they sucked, and infact they got a massive buff finally...the same goes for Shielded variant

tzaangors have the same problem because yeah they seem tanky, but they can't do damage like at all. they have 24 MA! this is clanrats level. and they have a trait to deal more damage with spell, only they can't use it because again they can't hit anything. they have even less MA then gor Shield from whom they are clearly based upon (24 vs 26)...it's clear as day there is something very bad in those units.

speed and vanguard and thing like that do net for something of course, so on equal value on 2 similar units, it is fine if they lose, but here the problem is they lose or trade horribly with intended cheape rtargets, which is something you don't see in other factions

In my test orc boys don't really defeat gor herds wS, but they win by cost (both almost dead, orcs cost less).

Spears lose to smiliar cost offensive inf, HE ones won't win quick, if anything they win by tying gor herds wS. Both have issues due to low MA vs high MD.
Gors will only score hits as long as their charge is active.
HE win due to HE martial prowess pushing them to 50MD, which is simply too much for gor herds to get past quick. If you engage in such a fight and expect to win, thats a player mistake. You don't try to break defensive inf by sending defensive inf, you're beastmen, use superior speed to outmanouver them and break through at a point.

Tzaangors don't have 24 MA, they got primal fury active pushing them to 29. But they also have 35 charge.