Weakest Faction? (Battle)

[Calvin the Cat]

What is the weakest faction in terms of performance in battle. In Singleplayer that is. I'm sure a weak faction can become a strong one in a player's hands but for the AI/Generally what is the weakest faction in battle.

[OpalGotMyHeart]

if i had to pick, itd be a faction that is weak early, relatively mediocre mid and has trouble scaling well into the late game, and that honestly describes only one faction that i know of, Damian, Demon of chaos and Leader of the Demonic legion. his lacking in research makes all of his units inherently weaker at each stage of the game than those of his chaos counterparts, and his equipment mechanic is excessively undertuned, making it so he can very rarely take on enemy lords or high tier infantry without being crushed. Further his economy is quite bad, and as such fielding strong armies is pretty rough so you will have a bad time with that. Over all i cant think of a faction thats weaker than him in campaign, as every other faction has some point in which they are good, but he kind of doesnt.

[☸𝕵𝖔☸]

The empire, the AI cant play them well so far IMO. Many units are specialists and fragile, and the front line doesnt hold long enough.

AI can grind you down by spamming many armies and doing good damage to you with arty and ranged if you arent good at rushing (even if its going to lose the battle, AI doesnt care, it just want to punish you hard every battle to make it hard to recover in campaign), but if you are good at rushing, AI cant do anything.

In AI vs AI battles (using the Mod) from my testing, the empire lose most battles over other factions. With a front line of flagellants it was doing better, but Ai rarely does that, and it wouldnt be good against players anyway.

[Uugly]

As the Empire. Lizardmen is easily one of the weakest. Greatsword counter their best infantry. Demi Knight counter their cavalry and monster.

[GeoG85]

Weakest....

I'll wager, Vampire Coast or Ogres.

Norsca comes to mind too.

[Yannir]

In AI hands but when fought manually? It depends on whether the AI is attacking or defending. They're worst at using defensive factions when attacking, and offensive factions when defending.

So, when attacking it's Dwarfs, Empire, Cathay, Skaven or maybe mono-Tzeentch. A little depending on specific comp but for the Dwarfs there is no comp that works in this situation. So Dwarfs. Might change with the DLC.

When defending it's Khorne, Vampire Counts, Lizardmen, Slaanesh or maybe Beastmen. Slaanesh out of these is most dependent on being aggressive and mobile + they just can't deal with flying missile units at all. So Slaanesh here.

[Sovereign Star]

I'd say Estalia, because there's a smelly Beastman nearby, and you have 5 settlements to defend, also not far from Galleon's Graveyard in case Count Noctilus finds taking doughnut is boring.

Oh yea, and a crazy rat man that drops nuke on you.

[SarmatII]

Originally posted by Merque:

For me it still is and remains Bretonnia. Not that they're completely useless but they require much more attention than any other faction/race in battle.

But they are nowhere near as terrible as they used to be prior to the last patch(es)

Literally one of the strongest mid & late-game faction due to Questing Knights punching so high above their pay grade, then it just gets stronger at tier 4 and 5. With Lore of Life backing up your monstrous flying cav with crazy speed & dmg combo, its unstoppable.

Excellent economy & no supply line for multiple armies is a big deal too.

[lethminite]

Originally posted by SarmatII:

Originally posted by Merque:

For me it still is and remains Bretonnia. Not that they're completely useless but they require much more attention than any other faction/race in battle.

But they are nowhere near as terrible as they used to be prior to the last patch(es)

Literally one of the strongest mid & late-game faction due to Questing Knights punching so high above their pay grade, then it just gets stronger at tier 4 and 5. With Lore of Life backing up your monstrous flying cav with crazy speed & dmg combo, its unstoppable.

Excellent economy & no supply line for multiple armies is a big deal too.

The point is since they are cav based, need to cycle charge, so more micro intensive than other races who have heavy infantry/monsters/archers who can just be told to run in range of the enemy, and left, with sub-optimal, but not catastrophic results. Do that with cav/chariots, and they just die. Bretonia is basically cav and peasants.

[animal blundetto]

Empire

I wouldn't say it's any melee army, including Daemons, because they all have big monsters and can just run at you. All elves are dangerous because their arcing shooting means the AI's formations barely matter compared to gunpowder factions. Skaven is just destructive and warfires/bombardiers/jezzails/rattlings are always a threat. Chaos Dwarfs are completely bonkers. Tzeentch has enough strong melee to back up their ranged and Nurgle, whilst not hard, can be an army wide DPS check.

The AI isn't completely ineffectual with heavy cav so Bretonnia can actually hurt late game. With Cathay sky artillery is always a thing you need to deal with and Terracotta Sentinels can be spammed. Dwarfs are just inherently tough and late game they tend to spam gyro which can be a problem if you don't plan well enough to deal with them.

But Empire have nothing. Their main threats are artillery and guns which are stupidly easy to deal with when being piloted by the AI. Their biggest "monster" is the steam tank which really isn't much of anything. AI Empire is just never a threat.

[Basarab Laiota]

Probbaly empire, they feel very "Warhammer 1"
Brettonia can also really suck if you are not great with micro

[Lain]

for the ai id say the beastmen, AI dont understand any sort of tactic or strategy and they do not fill their armies with the correct unit combos to go for aggressive wombo charges

early game their sneaky units do not sneak around, they use em like regular infantry both missile and melee & they do not try to even save their faster harassers, instead just yeet them.
their economy seems to be weak & stay weak since they raid extremely minor regions while
running away from anything and everything

they dont even have an end game for they are eternally stuck in early game

in all my playtime in warhammer 2 and 3 i have never considered any beastmen army a threat only a nuisance to my most undefended and least economical minor settlements.


Empire AI is not that great either, a faction that really needs a head atop of those shoulders and the AI have barely 2 functioning lines of code or something

in game 2 Empire were way more threatening but their roster is so underwhelming, even some of their artillery now is shadowed by some of the other races.

lizardmen are close third, even though they have lots of threatening dinos and tough heroes. they just do not seem to use it like they should be and instead they use a spam of assorted units, half their army want to do one thing and the other half wants to do the total opposite.
but the AI dont really do either of those two things properly because it only has 1 tactic, so they just fail. most of their starting positions for their lords are fantastic and yet they never go anywhere with it.
Kroq gar for instance has an amazing location with Easy early game enemies, but the ai flops it completely and gets rekt by minor skaven or early game tomb kings which is hilariously sad

[Basarab Laiota]

Oh and Vampire Counts can really suck if you're not relying on their Lords and Heroes.

[Squirrely Wrath]

depends on the tier of the army, but ogres are pretty much worst across the bord except when you hit the led belcher power spike in time

norsca hast really anything going for it either

vapire coast while quite decent, hasnt really aged well; same as khemri

havent played wood elves in ages; no clue how they are holding up

chaos dwars got kinda pushed down a lot due to some unit and damage type changes because muh multiplayer balance

[assarhadon]

Originally posted by lethminite:

Originally posted by SarmatII:

Literally one of the strongest mid & late-game faction due to Questing Knights punching so high above their pay grade, then it just gets stronger at tier 4 and 5. With Lore of Life backing up your monstrous flying cav with crazy speed & dmg combo, its unstoppable.

Excellent economy & no supply line for multiple armies is a big deal too.

The point is since they are cav based, need to cycle charge, so more micro intensive than other races who have heavy infantry/monsters/archers who can just be told to run in range of the enemy, and left, with sub-optimal, but not catastrophic results. Do that with cav/chariots, and they just die. Bretonia is basically cav and peasants.

Micro dont make them weak, they can rush skaven weapon team army when heavy inf and shooters will blow up to pieces.

[lethminite]

Originally posted by assarhadon:

Originally posted by lethminite:

The point is since they are cav based, need to cycle charge, so more micro intensive than other races who have heavy infantry/monsters/archers who can just be told to run in range of the enemy, and left, with sub-optimal, but not catastrophic results. Do that with cav/chariots, and they just die. Bretonia is basically cav and peasants.

Micro dont make them weak, they can rush skaven weapon team army when heavy inf and shooters will blow up to pieces.

No one said they were weak, the original comment is that they are too much effort.