Should empire soldiers get a bit more armor? Yay or Nay?

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

So with multiple threads popping up asking for better melee units for the empire I thought I'd pose my own take on it, that empire soldiers are too lightly armored.

Nuln ironsides are getting 60 base armor to start with and though their armor doesn't actually look that much more than what the standard empire footmen have the standard is only 30 armor.

Way I see it empire could use a slight bump from 30-60 armor on footmen to bring them a little more in line with the other human factions for a slight increase in price. Now I only say armor because honestly even as they are for the price empire spearmen with shields are pretty good line holders, they only cost 92 upkeep and have 42 melee defense, for context celestial dragon halberds for Cathay have 43.

What do you guys think about that change?

EDIT: Just so you guys know I personally think the empire infantry is fine the way it is, I'm more so asking as an alternative to the people who seem to want straight up the equivalent to chosen for empire infantry.

[Malarraenaepcaleac'h]

They should get more VISUAL armor. And Elves should get more armor (like Spearmen)

[Raz'Hikel]

Their infantry could use a good melee defence + leadership buff. Right now the empire is just worse skaven.

[SOFAGUS]

idk whats the point. They are quite small and fragile compared to most things they have to fight
also looks like in 5.0 gunlines would be working and i am so hopeful

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Pookie101 a écrit :

They probably just need pikemen. Bad armour, poor speed and agility but able to keep things at bay and hold a front line but slaughtered if flanked or shot.

Maybe a unit of Empire Dwarves would help

I don't know pikemen seem like they'd have less melee defense (longer spears more unwieldy in foot combat better vs cavalry) which seems counter intuitive as shielded spearmen are already pretty strong with charge reflection.

and you can already get empire dwarves with military alliances.

[SarmatII]

Cyiel a écrit :

50 Armor is on average a 37.5% base damage reduction, not ~25%.
70 Armor is on average a 52.5% base damage reduction, not ~35%.

The outcome is similar.

Ogres do 89 dmg to Minos, and Minos do 106 to Ogres in that example.

If Minos had 50 armor the same as Ogre, they will instead take just 6 dmg more. Still well below that Ogres take, and on top of that, Minos have much higher melee atk with frenzy so they hit more often. Which is the deciding factor. Not the 50 vs 70 armor.

Armor negating just regular damage, when the majority of the damage is AP makes it less relevant.

[Cyiel]

SarmatII a écrit :

Cyiel a écrit :

50 Armor is on average a 37.5% base damage reduction, not ~25%.
70 Armor is on average a 52.5% base damage reduction, not ~35%.

The outcome is similar.

Ogres do 89 dmg to Minos, and Minos do 106 to Ogres in that example.

If Minos had 50 armor the same as Ogre, they will instead take just 6 dmg more. Still well below that Ogres take, and on top of that, Minos have much higher melee atk with frenzy so they hit more often. Which is the deciding factor. Not the 50 vs 70 armor.

Armor negating just regular damage, when the majority of the damage is AP makes it less relevant.

Sure but if you want to use formulas, do it right.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Pookie101 a écrit :

Googley Eye'd Bastard a écrit :

I don't know pikemen seem like they'd have less melee defense (longer spears more unwieldy in foot combat better vs cavalry) which seems counter intuitive as shielded spearmen are already pretty strong with charge reflection.

and you can already get empire dwarves with military alliances.

From experience with Rome and Rome 2 pikemen were devastating in a choke point vs infantry, the enemy infantry had a hard time actually getting to the pikemen as the pikes kept them at bay mostly. It wasn't fast but they could hold a line.

For example I had 2 basic pikemen holding a street in a city, the enemy outnumbered me 20:1 yet the pikemen held them off long enough for a single unit of cavalry to hit them in the rear.

Attacked in the flank or rear and they are deleted in seconds but frontally, they excel.

Choke points are rather rare in tww3, you either have to be defending a city on on select rare maps.