Nurgle new plague system is a nerf

[Adamsevs]

Not only infections is harder to get, the plagues turns have been shortened, plague immunity have been incorporated (why does it even applies to your own nurglish settlements ?!) and more than anything else, the effects of the plagues are weak and prone to RNG to get a good plague.

Before rework, the unique plague recipes were bonkers. +100% sack income, or +30% replenishment for army, the extra 20% physical resistance for plaguebearers, the 70 growth plague and so on...

Give us back the plague cauldron !

[Dojac]

Nah. The old system was just a boring re-skin of Grom's mechanic. You would spam the same plague over and over again and the other symptoms became redundant really early on, now it encourages you to utilise what you have available at your disposal.

Infections being hard to get is the result of the current bug which is affecting how many infections you get post-battle. It's currently capped at 37 which makes you reliant on spamming infection buildings to get anywhere.

Plague turns are shortened but you can still increase them during their creation by spending extra infection points. Immunity in your settlements is probably also another bug or an oversight.

The attrition symptom is useless as it always has been due to AI buffs. The rest aren't that bad, the armor + melee defence is a great combo in the early game for your armies when AP isn't as easy to come by for the enemy. The blessed versions are pretty good too.

I do think they could increase the symptom variety a bit more to keep things interesting, otherwise, if CA or even the Community Bug Fix mod addresses the issues within the next week or two then they'll be in a decent spot.

[Zeek]

No, the new system is way better. You can actually make plagues to fit your situation instead of spamming sack plague every single time because it was one of the only useful ones.

You have a building that gives you infections per turn. You need to be building this in every settlement along with the money one. By turn 35 I have around 1000 infections.

[Enelith]

Originally posted by Dojac:

Nah. The old system was just a boring re-skin of Grom's mechanic. You would spam the same plague over and over again and the other symptoms became redundant really early on, now it encourages you to utilise what you have available at your disposal.

Infections being hard to get is the result of the current bug which is affecting how many infections you get post-battle. It's currently capped at 37 which makes you reliant on spamming infection buildings to get anywhere.

Plague turns are shortened but you can still increase them during their creation by spending extra infection points. Immunity in your settlements is probably also another bug or an oversight.

The attrition symptom is useless as it always has been due to AI buffs. The rest aren't that bad, the armor + melee defence is a great combo in the early game for your armies when AP isn't as easy to come by for the enemy. The blessed versions are pretty good too.

I do think they could increase the symptom variety a bit more to keep things interesting, otherwise, if CA or even the Community Bug Fix mod addresses the issues within the next week or two then they'll be in a decent spot.

Originally posted by Zeek:

No, the new system is way better. You can actually make plagues to fit your situation instead of spamming sack plague every single time because it was one of the only useful ones.

You have a building that gives you infections per turn. You need to be building this in every settlement along with the money one. By turn 35 I have around 1000 infections.

Those. It's better. Less boring. Doesn't have to be OP to be more fun to play with.

[R131]

You missed the nerf to the cultists who carry the plague, movement range bonus reduced to 0 from 50%

The new system is ok but the links between ingredients need increasing to 4 or separating the army perks and settlement perks might work. The blessed ingredients are supposed to replace your unique recipe big bonuses but its random and it often doesnt bless any atall, it needs 1 blessing guaranteed with RNG for if a 2nd and 3rd appear?

Overall it is fun, come mid game i am swimming in infections though, it would be nice if we could use infections to bless or reduce cooldown of ingredients?

[Aleera]

I do prefer the old system, if only for Epidimious.

[TheSilverRaven]

Eh, yes and no. The new system is weaker, but it's more interesting. The big problems I see with it are infections earned per battle being capped at 37 and the spread chance halving each time the plague spreads.

[lethminite]

We'll need to see how it goes with infections uncapped.
I do think infections as a resource is fundamentally flawed at the moment.
You need to spend them on military buildings and research, spending them on plagues before then, is wasting them on a temporary bonus at the expense of a permanent bonus.

It might be worth it a couple of times, to give your army a big boost and turn what would be a loss, or pyrrhic victory (in the literal sense), into a win that you can be happy with.
Or maybe some growth plagues, since that's also permanent bonus in a way.

But outside of that, it's a waste.

I think there are 3 possible fixes:
1) The cap being removed might actually make them work again, if it ends up that you are just rolling in infections. Though that also raises the question of why have that as the cost for buildings/research, and would mean the infection income buildings are basically useless. Maybe that's all it takes to make it work, and it's just bugged, but I still dislike the cons.

2) Give plagues their own resource separate from the one used for military/research. Maybe make it so plagues cost some new resource, and generate infections themselves, which are then spent on military/research. Since you can use infections to rush the cycle, they are never technically useless even if you can't spend them on plagues, though late game you are probably rolling is units.

3) Give plagues a periodic discount. Maybe make plagues cost 50 less infections each turn since the last plague, so you can make a plague every 4 turns for free in the early game, meaning you still engage with the mechanic when trying to get your early units going, while still keeping the number of infections pretty tight, keeping infection buildings pretty important.

[Isaac]

nope, the old system was really bad, you bascialy never used 95% of all symptoms and after turn 20-30, you only made the same 2 plagues and ignored the rest. now, you have to make the best out of what oyu are given, and the modifications for the plagues are fantastic too.
in general, once the bug with the capped infections is fixed, nurgle is one of the more interesting to play factions, since you really have to think about how to use infections. use it for more mulitary building, or to speed up the cycles of those building, or to modify your plagues so that they are better.
Havn't played nurgle as much as I like to (not much free time right now) but from everything I have seen, nurgle is now way better than how he was before.

[Mr.Dark]

system sucks most for Epidemius from what ive played so far, With Tamurkhan i had alot but with Epidemius you get spoon fed infections and have to deal with Malus and Sigvald

[Adamsevs]

You made valid points guys, sure the current system make it different and new with a choice to make, thought the old version wasn't OP or only useful for one receipe being spammed !

If the infections gain post battle is uncapped at 37 sure it would helps a bit to spread plagues more often and pump it to last additionnal turns...

But for instance in old versions...
1) Your plagues could last 10 turns+ easily
2) There was no stupid cooldown on symptoms like there is now, if i wanted to creates nurgle plague cultists with -4 atk, -4 defence -50% armour on ennemie forces, i could create one every turns if i wanted to, it's no longer feasible (and RIP the juicy armour reduction too)
3) The plague immunity is a useless parameters, if anything it prevents you to inflict back your own forces to prolonge the effects of the plagues (which is weird for Nurgle factions...)
4) Unlimited choice of symptoms, it was like a shop of candy (some more tasteful than others) and you could pick which ever combination you wanted at any given times, now your are locked behind RNG of symptoms arrangement, doubled by an other layer of RNG for blessed symptoms...

[Adamsevs]

Originally posted by Isaac:

nope, the old system was really bad, you bascialy never used 95% of all symptoms and after turn 20-30, you only made the same 2 plagues and ignored the rest. now, you have to make the best out of what oyu are given, and the modifications for the plagues are fantastic too.
in general, once the bug with the capped infections is fixed, nurgle is one of the more interesting to play factions, since you really have to think about how to use infections. use it for more mulitary building, or to speed up the cycles of those building, or to modify your plagues so that they are better.
Havn't played nurgle as much as I like to (not much free time right now) but from everything I have seen, nurgle is now way better than how he was before.

The new systems is more restrictive and personnaly i used multiple combination of plagues in the old system, not just one or two.
Nurgle shouldn't be restricted when it comes to plagues, it's after all IT'S THING, it's like if khorn would only accept extra fluid blood or perfectly shaped skulls !

[Isaac]

Originally posted by Adamsevs:

Originally posted by Isaac:

nope, the old system was really bad, you bascialy never used 95% of all symptoms and after turn 20-30, you only made the same 2 plagues and ignored the rest. now, you have to make the best out of what oyu are given, and the modifications for the plagues are fantastic too.
in general, once the bug with the capped infections is fixed, nurgle is one of the more interesting to play factions, since you really have to think about how to use infections. use it for more mulitary building, or to speed up the cycles of those building, or to modify your plagues so that they are better.
Havn't played nurgle as much as I like to (not much free time right now) but from everything I have seen, nurgle is now way better than how he was before.

The new systems is more restrictive and personnaly i used multiple combination of plagues in the old system, not just one or two.
Nurgle shouldn't be restricted when it comes to plagues, it's after all IT'S THING, it's like if khorn would only accept extra fluid blood or perfectly shaped skulls !

I don't really get how the new system is terstricting? you have way more choice now with what you can do with plagues. that they allways have upsides for you and downsides for the enemy is also a huge plus, because before you could infest an enemy with a plague and nothing would happen at all.
and the black plague and nurgles rot were so strong, using anything but them is really a waste. way too strong, way too easy to get.

[Ares]

Originally posted by Isaac:

nope, the old system was really bad, you bascialy never used 95% of all symptoms and after turn 20-30, you only made the same 2 plagues and ignored the rest. now, you have to make the best out of what oyu are given, and the modifications for the plagues are fantastic too.

Considering the symptoms hasn't really changed much all you're saying is "now you're forced to make bad plagues to be able to make the good ones", which doesn't exactly sound like an improvement.

Being able to boost your plagues and to make multiple plagues per turn definitely makes the system stronger, but combined with the symptom restrictions and cooldowns and the diversification of the infection economy it's hard to say that the system is more impactful than it was before.

Whether it's more or less enjoyable than before is just a matter of personal taste.

[Adamsevs]

Originally posted by Isaac:

Originally posted by Adamsevs:

The new systems is more restrictive and personnaly i used multiple combination of plagues in the old system, not just one or two.
Nurgle shouldn't be restricted when it comes to plagues, it's after all IT'S THING, it's like if khorn would only accept extra fluid blood or perfectly shaped skulls !

I don't really get how the new system is terstricting? you have way more choice now with what you can do with plagues. that they allways have upsides for you and downsides for the enemy is also a huge plus, because before you could infest an enemy with a plague and nothing would happen at all.
and the black plague and nurgles rot were so strong, using anything but them is really a waste. way too strong, way too easy to get.

I call it restricting because if you were to need a plague that would require symptoms too far apart from each others, you couldn't bake the one you had in mind since the symptoms need to be linked in a chain.

And sure the unique receipe were strong and would be OP now that Nurgle factions got beefed up, it's just that i don't appreciate brewing plagues with the feeling of having my hands tied between my back and under the spell of RNJesus

[Isaac]

Originally posted by Ares:

Originally posted by Isaac:

nope, the old system was really bad, you bascialy never used 95% of all symptoms and after turn 20-30, you only made the same 2 plagues and ignored the rest. now, you have to make the best out of what oyu are given, and the modifications for the plagues are fantastic too.

Considering the symptoms hasn't really changed much all you're saying is "now you're forced to make bad plagues to be able to make the good ones", which doesn't exactly sound like an improvement.

Being able to boost your plagues and to make multiple plagues per turn definitely makes the system stronger, but combined with the symptom restrictions and cooldowns and the diversification of the infection economy it's hard to say that the system is more impactful than it was before.

Whether it's more or less enjoyable than before is just a matter of personal taste.

first, "making bad plagues to unlock the strong ones" is exactly how the old system worked.
and second, blessed symptoms who double the effect, together with that all plagues now allways gives you buffs together with nerfs to the enemy makes them allready way better. you now have to actually make achoice what plagues you create and can't just spam the same OP plague over and over again.