New Empire ranged units role: Description?

[Skyler712]

Can anyone explain to me the roles of the new ranged units compared to the good old handgunners for example? nothing extense, just a few words. From what i ve experienced, we got:
- skaven-like snipers filling that role.
-Human version of thunderers (fewer numbers, better weapons and armor+ reload skill)
-Big ass ship.
-A new steam tank with a gatling.

I ve 2 big questions about this dlc then:

-Are the nuln handgunners a direct upgrade from the handgunners? or does the state troop variant/ror of handgunners still has a niche on an army (campaign wise)?

-What is the purpose of the new gatling steam tank and the landship? feels like they have similar roles, and since we have the volley artillery, idk why i should recruit one of them. At least the landship feels like a big ass war wagon with a cannon.

[Enelith]

Tbh, you'll get your answers by comparing their stats and abilities/passives.

[Skyler712]

Originally posted by Enelith:

Tbh, you'll get your answers by comparing their stats and abilities/passives.

Some units are too similar unless theres some hidden skill or stat out there. The landship is too similar to the steam tank for being a big single entity that shoots a cannon and can shoot while moving. one have more hp and other have more armor and plating. And yet, feels like they share the same exact role for their tier. This is worse with the Gatling steam tank: why recruit it if you have the volley artillery gun?.
So, this is not like with the dwarf dlc, where the new units are just filling roles in the dwarf army that didnt exist before (like the thunderbarges).
I hope with this to clarify what i meant with my post.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by Skyler712:

Can anyone explain to me the roles of the new ranged units compared to the good old handgunners for example? nothing extense, just a few words. From what i ve experienced, we got:
- skaven-like snipers filling that role.
-Human version of thunderers (fewer numbers, better weapons and armor+ reload skill)
-Big ass ship.
-A new steam tank with a gatling.

I ve 2 big questions about this dlc then:

-Are the nuln handgunners a direct upgrade from the handgunners? or does the state troop variant/ror of handgunners still has a niche on an army (campaign wise)?

-What is the purpose of the new gatling steam tank and the landship? feels like they have similar roles, and since we have the volley artillery, idk why i should recruit one of them. At least the landship feels like a big ass war wagon with a cannon.

I'd say the landship is more anti infantry than the steam tank, with the guns firing off the ship the whole time.

The hockland rifles are sniper units like crane gunners or jezzails.

Nuln Ironsides are just more powerful handgunners with more armor to boot.

[path2power]

Ironsides have fewer gunners than handguns, so I guess handguns are better for shooting large targets. the higher armor on ironsides means they're better at trading or if they get into melee. I guess they're slightly better unless you're fighting monster heavy armies.

New Steam tank is a hellblaster gun on a mobile platform, while a regular steam tank is a mobile grand cannon. The new steam tank is better than the old one. Also you're right about the land ship, its a giant war wagon you want to charge into the center if the enemy so both sides can fire.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by path2power:

Ironsides have fewer gunners than handguns, so I guess handguns are better for shooting large targets. the higher armor on ironsides means they're better at trading or if they get into melee. I guess they're slightly better unless you're fighting monster heavy armies.

New Steam tank is a hellblaster gun on a mobile platform, while a regular steam tank is a mobile grand cannon. The new steam tank is better than the old one. Also you're right about the land ship, its a giant war wagon you want to charge into the center if the enemy so both sides can fire.

So that is the thing I never got with steam tanks they are cool and all but why would I want to put the money into a single steam tank with one grand cannon or 3 (I think volley barrels) when I can just get 4 grand canons or volley guns in one unit for cheaper? I guess you could argue that their more protected but I still find a wall of guns and spears a better option.

[Skyler712]

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by path2power:

Ironsides have fewer gunners than handguns, so I guess handguns are better for shooting large targets. the higher armor on ironsides means they're better at trading or if they get into melee. I guess they're slightly better unless you're fighting monster heavy armies.

New Steam tank is a hellblaster gun on a mobile platform, while a regular steam tank is a mobile grand cannon. The new steam tank is better than the old one. Also you're right about the land ship, its a giant war wagon you want to charge into the center if the enemy so both sides can fire.

So that is the thing I never got with steam tanks they are cool and all but why would I want to put the money into a single steam tank with one grand cannon or 3 (I think volley barrels) when I can just get 4 grand canons or volley guns in one unit for cheaper? I guess you could argue that their more protected but I still find a wall of guns and spears a better option.

It depends really if you compare those 2 pairs of units: the artillery version or the tank version:
-artillery version: more damage coz x4 artillery instead of 1.
-Tank version: mobile, high armor, tank blobs of enemies, charge and can still shoot.
Now, which version is better in which type of unit?
Cannon version:
-Cannons are cheaper, but there are better forms to deal with single entities, their projectile are slow and are not really great agains blobs (good enough to cavalry)
-Volley artillery are always good against anything, their only problem is not having enough dakka!.
So, my conclusion i guess is: Recruit vanilla steam tank, recruit vanilla volley gun, reject cannons and reject new steam volley tank.

[-Singularity-]

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by path2power:

Ironsides have fewer gunners than handguns, so I guess handguns are better for shooting large targets. the higher armor on ironsides means they're better at trading or if they get into melee. I guess they're slightly better unless you're fighting monster heavy armies.

New Steam tank is a hellblaster gun on a mobile platform, while a regular steam tank is a mobile grand cannon. The new steam tank is better than the old one. Also you're right about the land ship, its a giant war wagon you want to charge into the center if the enemy so both sides can fire.

So that is the thing I never got with steam tanks they are cool and all but why would I want to put the money into a single steam tank with one grand cannon or 3 (I think volley barrels) when I can just get 4 grand canons or volley guns in one unit for cheaper? I guess you could argue that their more protected but I still find a wall of guns and spears a better option.

They are basically like a monster that can shoot. Their shootyness is more of a bonus than the main feature. They have 100% missile block chance from the front and are unbreakable. They are decent at keeping multiple units busy in melee. I like to stick one on whichever flank is most vulnerable.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by -Singularity-:

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

So that is the thing I never got with steam tanks they are cool and all but why would I want to put the money into a single steam tank with one grand cannon or 3 (I think volley barrels) when I can just get 4 grand canons or volley guns in one unit for cheaper? I guess you could argue that their more protected but I still find a wall of guns and spears a better option.

They are basically like a monster that can shoot. Their shootyness is more of a bonus than the main feature. They have 100% missile block chance from the front and are unbreakable. They are decent at keeping multiple units busy in melee. I like to stick one on whichever flank is most vulnerable.

Do they actually do much in melee though? I distinctly remember the last time I used one which was a long time ago that the little ram's it does don't do much good.

[-Singularity-]

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by -Singularity-:

They are basically like a monster that can shoot. Their shootyness is more of a bonus than the main feature. They have 100% missile block chance from the front and are unbreakable. They are decent at keeping multiple units busy in melee. I like to stick one on whichever flank is most vulnerable.

Do they actually do much in melee though? I distinctly remember the last time I used one which was a long time ago that the little ram's it does don't do much good.

I use them mostly for keeping multiple enemy units in place so ranged can eat them up. They are pretty tough and aside from missile block and fighting to the last hp with unbreakable, they also cause terror.

[Da_Higg]

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Do they actually do much in melee though? I distinctly remember the last time I used one which was a long time ago that the little ram's it does don't do much good.

Steam tank is more of a chariot than a melee fighter. especially if it is ploughing through units that were already softened up by mortars/hellstorms

[Darklight]

This is just my take on this, people are free to disagree.
Nuln gunners>gunners. 60 vs 90 men but double the ranged damage, better stats overall including melee allowing them to survive getting pushed into and not being that more expensive.

Tanks are best at single entities and very survivable, they tend to be the most useful for me. Gatling tank seems useless as it's just a tank that performs better against multiple entities which there is far better options for, like rocket artillery. Ships I haven't played with a ton but they have 360 missile block I'm pretty sure, so they could be an alternative to tanks against range spam factions, dunno.

Overall, I'm just contempt with Nuln gunners, rocket artillery, and a couple tanks.

[JODEGAFUN]

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by path2power:

Ironsides have fewer gunners than handguns, so I guess handguns are better for shooting large targets. the higher armor on ironsides means they're better at trading or if they get into melee. I guess they're slightly better unless you're fighting monster heavy armies.

New Steam tank is a hellblaster gun on a mobile platform, while a regular steam tank is a mobile grand cannon. The new steam tank is better than the old one. Also you're right about the land ship, its a giant war wagon you want to charge into the center if the enemy so both sides can fire.

So that is the thing I never got with steam tanks they are cool and all but why would I want to put the money into a single steam tank with one grand cannon or 3 (I think volley barrels) when I can just get 4 grand canons or volley guns in one unit for cheaper? I guess you could argue that their more protected but I still find a wall of guns and spears a better option.

If you fight Skaven you do not fear manace from below with a steamtank, ore bats, harpies and similar units.

[Keith 'Blood' Hanson]

The Land Ship is more like a chariot or War Wagon. The steam tank is fine getting stuck in, but Land Ship you'll want to charge in, then probably get back out due to their lower defense. I'd guess its more of a glass cannon/mass chaos and confusion with the Landship always shooting at folks. Especially the RoR version, which replaces the repeater rifles with grenade launchers.

Knights of Morr are probably the best the Empire's going to get with a sturdy melee unit that isn't...a tank. Focused on getting stuck in; other empire cavalry are shock cavalry, all about that charge, these guys you can charge in and leave there and they'll do fine.

Nuln gunners are the closest we're getting with hybrid infantry...without them calling them as such. Better armor, melee, reload than handgunners, so basically just a straight upgrade, even with 30 less units in it.

Hochland longrifles are there to delete single entity enemies and lords and heroes. They're very good at their job.

New steam tank is kinda self explanatory, more bullets and dakka.

[Skyler712]

Originally posted by Keith 'Blood' Hanson:

The Land Ship is more like a chariot or War Wagon. The steam tank is fine getting stuck in, but Land Ship you'll want to charge in, then probably get back out due to their lower defense. I'd guess its more of a glass cannon/mass chaos and confusion with the Landship always shooting at folks. Especially the RoR version, which replaces the repeater rifles with grenade launchers.

Knights of Morr are probably the best the Empire's going to get with a sturdy melee unit that isn't...a tank. Focused on getting stuck in; other empire cavalry are shock cavalry, all about that charge, these guys you can charge in and leave there and they'll do fine.

Nuln gunners are the closest we're getting with hybrid infantry...without them calling them as such. Better armor, melee, reload than handgunners, so basically just a straight upgrade, even with 30 less units in it.

Hochland longrifles are there to delete single entity enemies and lords and heroes. They're very good at their job.

New steam tank is kinda self explanatory, more bullets and dakka.

Updating your opinion: I was using the landship and man, its hilarious to use. 3 landships feels like those spaceships shooting all their cannons and lasers at everything they found, just to end with a CHOO CHOO ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and evaporate any dogs, horse or infantry.
Man by far this is my favourite dlc.

[CrUsHeR]

Volley Steam Tank: Actually benefits from the Gunnery upgrades for Volley Guns.
For non-Nuln factions: Since the regular Volley Guns are already much stronger than Cannons, this seems like a straight upgrade. Can't think of any situation where a highly mobile TANK would be better off with the long-range anti-large cannon instead of the repeater gun with 4x the DPS.

Land Ship: Has a turbo boost to charge through several enemy lines with double speed.
Feels very different over the Steam Tank. Has a lot of crew shooters on deck.
The RoR version has a Mortar instead of a Cannon.

Ironsides: Straight upgrade over Handgunners, especially when you let them stand still.
Feels like they should be some kind of limited State Troops.
The actual State Troop Handgunners have 160 range (+15) and Stalk.