Do you guys think lords and heroes are a bit too OP?

[goobacks]

You guys know what I’m talking about. A level 20 lord is an absolute terror and a level 40 lord is a one man army. At that point the game stops being a strategy game and becomes an ARPG.

I know characters are supposed to be powerful but during the end times, Canto the Unsworn saved Archaon from a backstab that could have killed him, as no matter how powerful you are, a sword through the heart is gonna hurt.

So what do you guys think? Should there be a mode where lords and heroes are less OP like in Three Kingdoms Total War? And actually need bodyguards to protect them?

[Garatgh Deloi]

On the other hand, for many of them being able to take down a army on their own is completely lore accurate.

[Cenwalh]

I think it's perfectly in line with the Warhammer world.

If anything, *more* of the unique heroes/lords should be buffed. There are a few that are not that great, and should be brought up to speed.

It's a bit ridiculous to think Archaon should need bodyguards. Warhammer Fantasy's power levels are ridiculous.

A single, nameless Chosen of Khorne I think is basically capable of single-handedly killing an entire real world infantry platoon (or more) or something along those lines. The stakes are turned up to 999 in Warhammer Fantasy and everything is off the charts. That's how I see it.

[Mei]

Seems completely fine to me. Everyone has several tools as well as their own lords and heroes to take them on with.

[Alan]

Originally posted by goobacks:

Do you guys think lords and heroes are a bit too OP?

No, I don't.

Edit: I do play with, and recommend, mods which increase the benefits from veteran levels for units. It helps them stay relevant.

[goobacks]

Originally posted by Cenwalh:

It's a bit ridiculous to think Archaon should need bodyguards. Warhammer Fantasy's power levels are ridiculous.

Archaon does indeed have bodyguards though, in both the lore and tabletop miniatures. They’re called the Varanguard and are some of the coolest models GW ever made.

[valky]

Originally posted by goobacks:

Originally posted by Cenwalh:

It's a bit ridiculous to think Archaon should need bodyguards. Warhammer Fantasy's power levels are ridiculous.

Archaon does indeed have bodyguards though, in both the lore and tabletop miniatures. They’re called the Varanguard and are some of the coolest models GW ever made.

fun-fact: the Varangian Guard was the most loyal mercenary group of Bazil II

edit: and if not mistaken, became later on his personal bodyguard-unit
Last stand of the Roman Empire :=)

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by goobacks:

At that point the game stops being a strategy game and becomes an ARPG.

Respectfully disagree. While with enough equipment it is possible to get an annoying amount of active abilities on some lords in many cases it's just as if not more effective to build for passive buffs and focus attention elsewhere.

Originally posted by goobacks:

So what do you guys think? Should there be a mode where lords and heroes are less OP like in Three Kingdoms Total War? And actually need bodyguards to protect them?

Not in Warhammer and I think 3k was fantasy enough for it's system to work. If CA makes another good historical game then I think leaders that focus on commanding and buffing their armies would be more in setting.

[Reaver79]

Certainly depends on the lord.. Some lords are more or less useless ♥♥♥♥♥ while others are solo armies in them self..
Most of them can be broken by army losses tho, only a few truely stay to the bitter end and offer a huge challenge at the same time.
As some have mentioned above, in WH the LL's are supposed to be warriors of legend..
A shame they never really are, they are just well geared characters..

[Raider Deci]

Nah, it kinda works for fantasy. Even if I prefer having them outside the actual fighting-army in the battles like previous TW-games. Maybe a choice since some clearly works better than others.

I do however think the max-levels are way to high, you are basically done leveling up your heroes at 20-25 to what you actually want from the them and the other half is just spamming points into whatever. Would also really like a serious cut-down of ancillarys, I always end up jettison like 85% of them just to make room in the list.

[Aranea]

Originally posted by Raider Deci:

Nah, it kinda works for fantasy. Even if I prefer having them outside the actual fighting-army in the battles like previous TW-games. Maybe a choice since some clearly works better than others.

I do however think the max-levels are way to high, you are basically done leveling up your heroes at 20-25 to what you actually want from the them and the other half is just spamming points into whatever. Would also really like a serious cut-down of ancillarys, I always end up jettison like 85% of them just to make room in the list.

some factions have too many other factions have to few, many heroes need more points to spend, its just a issue with the game being a meess of 3 different games jumbled together and everything always needs updating

[goobacks]

Originally posted by Reaver79:

Most of them can be broken by army losses tho, only a few truely stay to the bitter end and offer a huge challenge at the same time.

i remember one time one of the Vampires, I think it was Vlad, got a hold of Widowmaker and he could wreck entire armies of early game units by himself. You could have 40 units of basic infantry and he'd kill them all. fun times

[ChaffyExpert]

Not at all.

If this was Europe in the middle ages, it would be a massive problem and unrealistic, even Medieval 2's lords are relatively safe with high armor and they can be sniped by a lucky catapult or ballista strike, compared to real life.


BUT this is Warhammer, not real life, and in addition to the lore stuff, Part of the appeal of this is massive tough beasts, lords, characters in the setting etc.

While i don't think a lord should be able to, say, single-handedly defeat an army, this is a setting of magic and dragons So i think it's fine that they are powerful.

In fact, that's the appeal of it, because this isn't the typical real-life esque total war, this is basically "What would combat look like and differ from real life, if things like magic giant beasts etc. existed" and i'm all for that.

That's what makes Warhammer a different experience than Medieval for example, i love medieval 2 but that's the game i go for relatively realistic simulation of medieval warfare, Warhammer is what i play when i want an epic battles.

[Reaver79]

Sacrifice a single unit to tie him down, put 3-4 handgunners or whatever ranged high AP unit you got around and start shooting him.. You kite, you shoot when he chases one they run, the others shoot, it aint hard.. And he's dead in no time..
Yes he's durable, that's his whole mechanic, but honestly 40% phys resist is in over all equal to the 40% ward, unless they can push out magical attacks.
Honestly the undead players whining here about the change are alot like the empire players who whined about not being able to take him down.. They might actually have to play a little smarter with him instead of just getting stuck in there and wait for the enemy to break.

[Zeek]

Nah it's fine from a lore perspective and balance.

There are several ways to melt or deal with single entities/characters.

[Kōizumi Seishiro]

In line with WHFB )