Love for Beastmen infantry

[Evil Panda]

Hi all!
Beastmen infantry is probably the worst in the game when counting pounds for pounds, and every infantry option loses to much cheaper similar units, (test them if you are curious if you feel useless you'll feel empowered lol) which Is weird for a rush/melee bestial faction

Lots of stats could be tweaked and beastmen should in general hit much harder than human, but i understand that would require more work so simple request:
gor Herd (shield), Gor Herd, Tzaangors and Bestigors -50 Gold all

Tzaangors +2 MA to make them equal to gor herd (shield)

[Hieronymous]

They do have bigger beasts you know.

Every Gor-killer is gangsta until the minotaurs roll up.

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

They do have bigger beasts you know.

Every Gor-killer is gangsta until the minotaurs roll up.

Yeah of course they have, but you also need infantry and every other race has better at this point. game 3 buffed MOST mid-tier infantry except for Gors, which now lose to infantry 100 points cheaper then them, so 50 points less would not even be enough, but would be a good step forward at least

I get that in campaign this is not huge issue as you have loads of coin, but in multy it is, and even in campaign it's very bad to train a unit and spend dread and be well aware that you are wasting a good chunk of those

Basically renders all infantry options subpar and useless, 1/3 of the roster gets ignored, and proceed to just spam minotaurs, which is not fun nor gameplay wise nor lore accurate

[Merque]

What do the other two guys playing multiplayer say about this?

[Ashley]

Originally posted by Merque:

What do the other two guys playing multiplayer say about this?

Ones complaining about fell bats being op the other is complaining about artillery's being op (user two could not figure out that they should send his fell bats at artillery)

[Aleera]

Beast men do not hold the line and should not stay around in combat for long.

They're a highly mobile faction relying on hitting and running in MP.
There's no issue that their infantry is lesser then other races. They have access to other unit's other then infantry.

I do agree that Gor should be slightly less in cost to be more in line with what you get in MP. You currently go full Ungor. Barely any Gor and never Bestigor.

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Beast men do not hold the line and should not stay around in combat for long.

They're a highly mobile faction relying on hitting and running in MP.
There's no issue that their infantry is lesser then other races. They have access to other unit's other then infantry.

I do agree that Gor should be slightly less in cost to be more in line with what you get in MP. You currently go full Ungor. Barely any Gor and never Bestigor.

That's not what i sayd tough. I did not say "let's make BM infantry as strong as drawfs" for instance, but i sayd that they are massively outmatched in terms of their infantry options, as all their infantry lose to much cheaper counterparts, so what's the point in bringing anything other than ungors?

Also, i 'm ok with their staying power being low. Their LD or defensive power should not be High, but their should hit hard and be what a rush/melee faction is supposed to, which is hit hard and in a cost effective manner when they find a good engagement

Thus why i propose just making them cheaper, as now for example, Gor Herd Shield cost 550 and lose to every 500 infantry and even to 450 infantry, orc Boys at 430 trash them. Some goes for other.

Making them cheaper would still male them subpar, but at least It would not be a waste of money

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by Merque:

What do the other two guys playing multiplayer say about this?

The problem is there even in campaign, as there is no reason to spend dread on anything other than minotaurs, which is not how beastmen army should be.

Gors, by lore, should be their cornerstone basically, and should be useful and food at least for the mid parte of your campaign, but it's not the case.

Making them also 50 dread points cheaper across the board would help single player as well, without making them broken since there is no broken in campaign as everything is basically

[Solvem Probler]

"Every faction should play exactly the same."

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Evil Panda:

That's not what i sayd tough. I did not say "let's make BM infantry as strong as drawfs" for instance, but i sayd that they are massively outmatched in terms of their infantry options, as all their infantry lose to much cheaper counterparts, so what's the point in bringing anything other than ungors?

Also, i 'm ok with their staying power being low. Their LD or defensive power should not be High, but their should hit hard and be what a rush/melee faction is supposed to, which is hit hard and in a cost effective manner when they find a good engagement

Thus why i propose just making them cheaper, as now for example, Gor Herd Shield cost 550 and lose to every 500 infantry and even to 450 infantry, orc Boys at 430 trash them. Some goes for other.

Making them cheaper would still male them subpar, but at least It would not be a waste of money

The thing is. They're faster then most other unit's. Have a passive that makes them even faster within a certain threshold. Have vanguard.
All these things, are not directly affecting heir combat power. Yet speed in particular costs quite a bit in the budget of a unit.

And yes, I did say Gor's and Bestigors could do with a cost reduction.

[CrUsHeR]

Well, the Bestigors are great. Especially with Khazrak when they have Stalk and Vanguard.

Only thing to fix is that they shouldn't take 2 turns to recruit.
This counters the whole Beastmen concept, as you can't simply increase the cap and recruit a Bestigor now, and then do that again five turns later.

And the Gors... you get 4 Gors per upgrade, and they are so cheap that you can always afford them. So they are simply the core of every Beastmen army.

You also get a number of fast and easy tech unlocks, and (iirc) their red line skills are more efficient for their infantry than for some other factions.



Also lol@multiplayer comparisons. In the campaign, Beastmen are always in Hidden Encampment while being immune to attrition. Then they ambush.

Sieges? 4x Shatterstone.

Conquer & Defend territory? Raze territory.

Herdstones not only spread plagues to cause attrition, but also make everyone "winded" in the bloodgrounds area. Besides the 100 corruption and locked ruins.

Etc.


Beastmen are mega OP, basically being the faceroll faction.
They just have so many bugs that they aren't fun to play.

[CrUsHeR]

BTW the Beastmen are also extremely strong in the Lord / Hero department.

Beastlords and Wargors get something like... 160 charge bonus in their Razorgor Chariot? Or keep them on foot, win every duel.

Or the Gorebulls. Malagor starts with one who also has a bound spell. He has these anti-infantry animations, just lounging in and destroying infantry. Like you break down walls, send this guy in, path is clear for your own units.

Then you have the Bray-Shamans. Everyone has the Bray-Shaman Familiar item, adding +10 magic reserves. Nurgle's Foul Stink. Only thing they don't have are flying mounts.

[provokastoras]

Yeah i bought in the hype and tried minotaurs of khrne in my campaign... almost lost because of it. they just suck, i literraly had an army with khorne marauders dual weapons (tier 1 infantry) and khorne minotaurs... tier4 or 5 stg and the marauders ranked 300 kills each unit survived and carried the battle the minotaurs got like 30 kills and got wiped out while engaged on archers and hybrid units -.-

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

BTW the Beastmen are also extremely strong in the Lord / Hero department.

Beastlords and Wargors get something like... 160 charge bonus in their Razorgor Chariot? Or keep them on foot, win every duel.

Or the Gorebulls. Malagor starts with one who also has a bound spell. He has these anti-infantry animations, just lounging in and destroying infantry. Like you break down walls, send this guy in, path is clear for your own units.

Then you have the Bray-Shamans. Everyone has the Bray-Shaman Familiar item, adding +10 magic reserves. Nurgle's Foul Stink. Only thing they don't have are flying mounts.

Dude. In campaign everithing is OP there is no point, what i'm saying is cost efficiency of units

If you think beastmen lords are strong try play literally any other faction as they have double the abilities and mount options, instead of bugged chariots that do not hit when not moving lol

And gorebull...oh man..he is bugged since 2016, he is called flybull for a reason

[Evil Panda]

Originally posted by Born2Dive:

"Every faction should play exactly the same."

So make some infantry 50 points cheaper is equal to make the beastmen the same as any other faction?

Nice joke dude

Not it's simply called balance, it would not complete rewrite how beastmen are player lol, just make some of their units worth bringing

Originally posted by Rianne:

Originally posted by Evil Panda:

That's not what i sayd tough. I did not say "let's make BM infantry as strong as drawfs" for instance, but i sayd that they are massively outmatched in terms of their infantry options, as all their infantry lose to much cheaper counterparts, so what's the point in bringing anything other than ungors?

Also, i 'm ok with their staying power being low. Their LD or defensive power should not be High, but their should hit hard and be what a rush/melee faction is supposed to, which is hit hard and in a cost effective manner when they find a good engagement

Thus why i propose just making them cheaper, as now for example, Gor Herd Shield cost 550 and lose to every 500 infantry and even to 450 infantry, orc Boys at 430 trash them. Some goes for other.

Making them cheaper would still male them subpar, but at least It would not be a waste of money

The thing is. They're faster then most other unit's. Have a passive that makes them even faster within a certain threshold. Have vanguard.
All these things, are not directly affecting heir combat power. Yet speed in particular costs quite a bit in the budget of a unit.

And yes, I did say Gor's and Bestigors could do with a cost reduction.

Yeah i totally agree speed ne Vanguard is something you should pay for and infact, even with 50 points less, BM infantry would be largely weaker then other counterparts

gors at 500 would still lose to 430 orcs, for instance, but at least would not be as hard a waste of money as before

So yeah, i'm asking for a small change to make them worth try at least, and it's ok if they are not stellar, but at least decent yeah they should

Atm in any competitive setting is ungor spam + razorgor + minotaurs, every single time.

[BIG E.]

Beastmen infantry has a lot of, what i'd like to call "hidden stats".

Their stat sheet is misleading.