What is up with the Frostwyrm

[Ol' Willie]

I was seceptical when I saw Katarin on a Wyrm performing way worse compared to horse. Katarin was not able to kill a routing Lord (without magic). Then I went into testing and found out that an Ice Witch on a Wyrm straight up looses to a generic foot lord.

It seems like the attacks of the forstwyrm are barely connecting like we have seen with many other SEMs before.

Did you experience something similar?

Otherwise, the Wyrm would be a cool addition but as it is it seems pretty janky.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Models with animations like that tend to be better against infantry groups, their animations missing single target lords.

[chickabumpbump]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Models with animations like that tend to be better against infantry groups, their animations missing single target lords.

so that’s another issue they can’t won’t fix

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by chickabumpbump:

so that’s another issue they can’t won’t fix

If it can be considered a issue, certain animations are simply not effective against single targets but great against a crowd. If the frost wyrm was made for fighting crowds then i'd argue that it might be working as intended.

That is assuming that its purpose is fighting crowds and the animations being the issue rather then some bug (i haven't tested the unit myself yet).

[Belegar]

Just tested it and the ice witch on a frost wyrm won over a boyar with half health left, but it had a lot of trouble hitting the routing boyar.

[Ashardalon]

big things failing to run down things is a known issue?/mechanic?/thing
the animations are bad at it, wich is why dogs are amazing at it
animations being a part of a creatures profile isnt new nor bad
nor should it change, else we end up with things like the starcraft stutterstep, wich has already ruined a genre

[Ol' Willie]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by chickabumpbump:

so that’s another issue they can’t won’t fix

If it can be considered a issue, certain animations are simply not effective against single targets but great against a crowd. If the frost wyrm was made for fighting crowds then i'd argue that it might be working as intended.

That is assuming that its purpose is fighting crowds and the animations being the issue rather then some bug (i haven't tested the unit myself yet).

for sure it is an issue when units can simply not hit (when their stats should allow them to). That is why all dragons (inclduing dragon characters), N'kari (an other big Daemons), and Cav got several overhauls for that. So for sure there will be an overhaul for the Wyrms at some point as well. My hope is to see that rather sooner then later.

Next time even at release... allthough, it would not feel like wh3 if there werent some new cool monsters performing some absolutly gorgeous animations while doing absolutley nothing

[jonoliveira12]

Frostwyrm is the Kislev Giant style unit. It is absolute garbage against other single entities, but smashes through infantry masses like no tomorrow.

Ice Witch on Frostwyrm is actually amazing, you get a melee artillery unit, and a ranged artillery caster, all in one.
Really pushing that hybrid unit faction mentality, to be fair.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Pookie101:

Originally posted by Ol' Willie:

for sure it is an issue when units can simply not hit (when their stats should allow them to). That is why all dragons (inclduing dragon characters), N'kari (an other big Daemons), and Cav got several overhauls for that. So for sure there will be an overhaul for the Wyrms at some point as well. My hope is to see that rather sooner then later.

Next time even at release... allthough, it would not feel like wh3 if there werent some new cool monsters performing some absolutly gorgeous animations while doing absolutley nothing

.. performing some absolutly gorgeous animations while doing absolutley nothing

So interpretive dance?

It is an anti-infantry unit, it's animations are great at breaking apart infantry formations.

[Imposter]

Wyrms are not melee 'duelist experts' per se... Melee smashers and thrashers is more of their forte.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Blasted:

Wyrms are not melee 'duelist experts' per se... Melee smashers and thrashers is more of their forte.

Yes, they are just like Giants for races that get those.
T3 melee artillery.

[Imposter]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Blasted:

Wyrms are not melee 'duelist experts' per se... Melee smashers and thrashers is more of their forte.

Yes, they are just like Giants for races that get those.
T3 melee artillery.

I dunno.. I feel like Giants can cause serious melee damage to SE's, more-so. Giants melee attack and damage is quite a bit higher, in comparison, and tends to swing more often.

[Echo]

Giants are quite capable against SEMs. Their main problem is getting into melee range in the first place, and getting pelted by arrows while doing so.

I think this wyrm is more akin to the coatl, which also had (still has?) issues with hitting single entities.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Blasted:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Yes, they are just like Giants for races that get those.
T3 melee artillery.

I dunno.. I feel like Giants can cause serious melee damage to SE's, more-so. Giants melee attack and damage is quite a bit higher, in comparison, and tends to swing more often.

Frostwyrms are faster as a trade off, however.
They also really do just as well against Infantry.

[Isaac]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Frostwyrm is the Kislev Giant style unit. It is absolute garbage against other single entities, but smashes through infantry masses like no tomorrow.

Ice Witch on Frostwyrm is actually amazing, you get a melee artillery unit, and a ranged artillery caster, all in one.
Really pushing that hybrid unit faction mentality, to be fair.

I think you got it backwards. Giants were allways good at dueling other SEM's, their weak areas was basicaly everything else

[Imposter]

Originally posted by Isaac:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Frostwyrm is the Kislev Giant style unit. It is absolute garbage against other single entities, but smashes through infantry masses like no tomorrow.

Ice Witch on Frostwyrm is actually amazing, you get a melee artillery unit, and a ranged artillery caster, all in one.
Really pushing that hybrid unit faction mentality, to be fair.

I think you got it backwards. Giants were allways good at dueling other SEM's, their weak areas was basicaly everything else

You know? I put "jagged weapons" upgrade on Giants that gives Bonus vs Infantry +10 I dont know exactly how it works on Giants.