What the hell happened to the Karl Franz start?

[Lord Rizzington of Mewingville]

I remember being able to steamroll my way into Bretonnia in WH2, and push all the way to Sylvannia. In Warhammer 3 all my neighbours get bumrushed by Vampire Counts and Chaos Beastmen. Also, it's impossible to retain my territory because my economy seems to be poor if I can't make trade agreements (all my friendly neighbours are dead, neighbourhood is ruined :((( ) and thus can't have the amount of armies I need to protect Elector States, expand, and one for patrolling against nomad armies.

I started a campaign as Karaz-a-Karak and I'm having a much better time. My locale seems a lot more stable, my economy is like 60% better than the Empire's, I'm expanding and now fielding 3 strong armies, my allies are a lot more competent etc.

I really like the concept of being squishy humans in a terrifying world of brootal orkz, stout dwarves, undying monstrosities etc and spending countless human lives just to fend off these threats. But surely at some point there is a way to break the deadlock and expand, especially in the economic sense? I think the Karl Franz start as it is is just insanely brutal, impossible for somebody like me who isn't the greatest at the Warhammer TWs.

[Revan Tair]

KF is tricky, but doable. Far from an easy campaign, as advertised by CA. You start the game best with a 2nd Lord, so you have a high level leader for your second army asap. A General of the Empire is good for siege attacker on the griffon. You go full economy and growth, only Altdorf matters to level up really. You unify Reikland by turn 5-6 and directly go north towards Middeheim (now a herdstone by khazrak and Altdorf gets attacked by him when u deal with fort helmgart) and give it back to boris. On dispute between electors always opt for giving back historical territory, this gives +1 IA, like giving back capitals. You flip all destroyed and occupied (Carroburg) settlements back to boris for easy +8-9 fealty. At the start of the game, turn 1 you invest your prestige once into gelt and boris (they keep the relationship, if destroyed and resurrected). After dealing with Khazrak, you go arround and kill the Orks and Marienburg, you need that port money. After that, you chase down Festus and establish Hochland and Ostland again. Your IA and fealty to Boris and Gelt should be very high (IA at 6-7) and fealty at max. Confed Gelt, if possible, and Boris too. Middenland and Sollland are powerhouses eco-wise and Fort Soll protects the entrance to it in Sollland's case. By the time you enact your revange against drycha and vlad (will declare war about turn 20-30), you should have army 3 and 4 (gelt and boris). Altdorf should make the most income, followed by marienburg (if conquered completely) and Middenland than Sollland. Sometimes it happens that Norsca attacks you, keep and army at Wrecker's Point in ambush for that matter. Also, it can happen that Barren Legion attacks you, they will take over Fort Bergbres with their masses, defending Marienburg and Eilhart are utmost important. Another war could be inntiated by if Wissenland succeds from the empire, allow that to happen and you can take Nuln easy, but be ready, they will attack Grunburg immediately. Use your prestige to only boost Gelt and Boris and keep 1000 in the bank for preventing war between electors and succession of states (not Wissenland). Gelt goes into Wissenland's electoral position for that sweet +40% missile resistance and +10% artillery damage. The Runefang of Wissenland is also golden with him (debuff to speed). You can't do that while playing as Gelt, only KF can, that's why KF > Gelt as starting LL.

Wall of Text, but those are some tips from my campaigns as the only empire I will ever play >:D

[KoboldUtopian]

I think it's much better than WH2. It's certainly a challenge but that makes it interesting. It's not that hard though, I had the borders of the empire secure by turn 30 with Gelt and Toddy confederated and around turn 50 when everyone else started attacking me I was able to push out in several directions.

You are going to lose some elector counts at first, but that's ok and the penalty isn't so bad. Then you go save them. Very fun and thematic!

[zefyris]

Empire's rework was originally based on the Elector counts not having too much major threat attacking them early. WH3 has already introduced several new major threats nearby, without introducing new strong Empire faction to counteract them. Which completely change the dynamic and difficulty of the main Empire campaign as a whole, as electors counts bneing wiped out early, causing you debuffs is way, way more likely to happen.
The Empire in WH2 wasn't a bad faction for new players because of how relatively safe the start was; but in WH3 it has become a way more challenging campaign and I would not recommend it to new players anymore.

Players could argue that it made it more interesting though.

[KoboldUtopian]

It's also worth checking out the dozen or so other threads on this very topic.

[Ironduke]

its the end times as the emperor its your job to save the empire and then go beyond to help other races especcialy kislev if that falls you have to fight horde,s of chaos worshipers.

[Spörtacus]

Another victim of the skelechads. Sylvania stays winning. The true elector count Von Carstein babeeee

[Raz'Hikel]

Originally posted by Basarab Laiota:

Originally posted by jenkem_lover189:

I remember being able to steamroll my way into Bretonnia in WH2, and push all the way to Sylvannia..

so you just want an easy campaign where you dont gotta think or plan?

the empire is definitely one of the most unbalanced starts considering the game recommends it to new players.
the main problem is how ungodly the elector counts mechanics are, because of the sheer number of enemies surrounding the empire (from within and without) your authority is gonna tank early on and there's nothing you can do, which makes the early game super unfair.

[Cultist]

Festus and Khazrak can steamroll their enemies in a handful of turns. Even if you survive that , Grom usually destroys half of Brettonia and then goes after you. Reikland is the most cursed start, completely surrounded by very strong enemies and with weak allies who blame the player when they die because of the outdated elector count mechanic.

[KoboldUtopian]

I strongly recommend y'all go check out the numerous guide to playing Empire. It's a tough start but one of the more interesting. I wouldn't say anything about it is "broken" or "impossible". I really hope they don't make it easy in the next patch.

[Sarumoon]

It's broken, and will be fixed in a patch, that will come one day. Not soon.

[Mepho]

Empire being reccomended for new players is weird.
Last time my usual strategy still worked, so I'll share I guess.

Clear up the first battle and settlement, recruit basic archers.
Go back to clear the other rebel settlement, keep recruiting ♥♥♥♥ archers.
Take the fort at the pass.
Declare war against the vampires in the mountains if they didn't do it already.
Lay ambush outside the fort, vampire lords usually get lured in.
Clear out their armies if any remain, then go back to finishing the rebels.

At that point the vampires are usually ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and the bretons should keep them occupied enough. They might even pay for peace. Marienburg is easy prey and very valuable if the east is holding (and it always did for me, unless I allied with them).
By that point your economy should be good enough to help/respawn Boris.
If you go for the full Marienburg's province you're gonna have to face Norsca sooner rather than later and Be'lakor is probably on his way as well, so be mindful of that.

All of this skips taking Nuln for the steam tank, but I find it makes things worse overall and its not worth it despite being a super good unit.
Once you get Franz a stack of Reiksguard and Greatswords (GS are usually slower to come by for me, plus if memory serves you can get Reiks in 1 turn while GS won't go lower than 2?) you can pretty much autoresolve anything.

[edit]
For the mid-game consider that you will be declared war upon by Be'lakor and his norscas coming from Albion (so North West, probably downriver near Marienburg), all vampires at some point (so the east and the west), possibly some Orcs from the southwest, Durthu from behind the montains in the south. The dwarves might not like you as well depening on your actions and campaing difficulty.
At some point Norsca will join but you can slow this down by not expanding too much north yourself. Anything else above that line or over the mountains will hate your guts as well.

[Cultist]

Mepho, it has nothing to do with planning or experience. If you've played an empire campaign since they introduced Festus, you know it's a complete diceroll if the counts north of you survive past turn 10 or so. At that point you've only just finished taking Reikland. The problem is that most of the elector counts are completely unable to hold onto their provinces without lots of help from the player, and you can only be in one place until you get a second stack, which is physically impossible before turn 12 or so due to recruitment restrictions.

I guess you could just sit in Altdorf and global recruit until you have multiple stacks, but what kind of braindead start to a campaign is that?

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by jenkem_lover189:

I remember being able to steamroll my way into Bretonnia in WH2, and push all the way to Sylvannia. In Warhammer 3 all my neighbours get bumrushed by Vampire Counts and Chaos Beastmen. Also, it's impossible to retain my territory because my economy seems to be poor if I can't make trade agreements (all my friendly neighbours are dead, neighbourhood is ruined :((( ) and thus can't have the amount of armies I need to protect Elector States, expand, and one for patrolling against nomad armies.

.

You dont see it?

In WH2 you did not have beastmen, Ogres & festus in the area. Also no orks in the north. Kemmler & Drycha was there but went AFK for the entire game. Kinda changes things



I love the discussions around this though. Reminds me of Western Romans in Attila & whenever people ask for tip people comes in & write essays on how to survive.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Raider Deci:

You dont see it?

In WH2 you did not have beastmen, Ogres & festus in the area. Also no orks in the north. Kemmler & Drycha was there but went AFK for the entire game. Kinda changes things

You did have beastmen. Morghur's starting position was in Nordland. Now he switched spots with Khazrack.

Greenskins have had that spot in warhammer 2 as well. Azhag got moved to the east mountains during the rework, but the Greenskins next to Middenland where there since launch of game 2.
You also had a Greenskin tribe south in the center of Bretonnia, that was at war with the Empire from turn 1 and would attack your mountain passes. You also had Skarsnik directly next to that mountain pass.

Drycha at her debut was hyper agressive and would kill the vampires and atleast 3 Elector counts.

The only things that are now worse for the Empire is the increased aggression of the AI in attacking it's neighbours. And Festus. Skragg will barely bother the Empire.

[feillyne]

The Franz campaign comes down to how quickly you can muster greatswords and reiksguard, and beeline for Festus and Khazrak after securing the first province.

Order factions are usually slow to grow, so doing a handful of favours for neighbours tends to pay off. Such as following the ultra-capitalist mantra and getting paid for war declarations (why war for free when the AI can grease your palm first?), extorting allies via "gifts" of settlements you do not want to keep (apart from raiding caravans/convoys and rapidly 'picking' sea encounters; Karl is a tad too far away from the sea coast however) or random treaties (whenever possible or advantageous, and iirc, you can also break them after 10 turns or so to slightly improve your relations with major powers or receive additional coin).