I Have a Blasphemous Opinion: Orks and Ogres are Chaos Adjacent

[WolfHound]

As far as I can tell...

Orks and Ogres are not Order races, but they definitely look and feel like Chaos Races.

Orks love fighting and they become unhealthy when they're not fighting. Pretty much the same for Khorne and his demons. If there isn't enough violent rage psychic energy in the minds of mortals Khorne and his host will start to fade back into the soup of the warp.

Ogres love eating and they can't survive without having second breakfast, Slaanesh has an entire circle of gluttony in her realm. She too will fade away back into the chaotic ocean of the warp if there isn't enough hedonism and hedonistic psychic energy in the minds of mortals.

Orks use Trolls and Goblins more than anyone else, Trolls and Goblins are gross, especially Trolls. Nurgle is literally the god of gross.

I imagine that Khuresh would rely a lot more on Tzeench and Slaanesh for their sources of magic. From what I've read at the very least...

The way I see it, Orks and Ogres are like Beastmen, Skaven and Khuresh. They're not fighting for Chaos but they do rely heavily on the forces of Chaos. Or rather Orks and Ogres embody much of the qualities of the Chaos Gods. Well, maybe only one or two of them.

In other words: these 5 races are chaos adjacent. Has anyone else considered this at least?

[WolfHound]

Originally posted by Hex:

Originally posted by Aleera:

I meant more along the line of physical mutation. I did not mean Orcs willingly serving the Chaos gods.

Elves and Dwarfs are other races that are highly resistant to chaos corruption without giving themselves willingly to chaos. It still happens.

Orcs were genetically engineered in both 40k and Fantasy to be immune to Chaos corruption on a biological level. They cannot be mutated by Chaos any more than Ncrons can be.

That very strange considering that there are chaos possessed machines.

[Hex]

Originally posted by WolfHound:

Originally posted by Hex:

Orcs were genetically engineered in both 40k and Fantasy to be immune to Chaos corruption on a biological level. They cannot be mutated by Chaos any more than Ncrons can be.

That very strange considering that there are chaos possessed machines.

Necrons are not AI.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Hex:

Orcs were genetically engineered in both 40k and Fantasy to be immune to Chaos corruption on a biological level. They cannot be mutated by Chaos any more than Ncrons can be.

I believe there are Khornate 40k Orcs.

Originally posted by Hex:

Neither can Dwrfs, Lizardmen or Elves. Wood Elves literally live in a pocket Chaos Realm without physical mutations.

Dwarfs? -> Chaos Dwarfs.
Lizardmen -> I don't remember any, but I do recall tzeentch flamers can mutate them.
Elves -> Alkor succeeded in corrupting parts of Athel Loren and caused mutation in woodelves.

[WolfHound]

Originally posted by Hex:

Originally posted by WolfHound:

That very strange considering that there are chaos possessed machines.

Necrons are not AI.

Aren't they all controlled by a handful of the old royalty who still have their souls intact?

[WolfHound]

Originally posted by Aleera:

Lizardmen -> I don't remember any, but I do recall tzeentch flamers can mutate them.

I think the Snake Men of Khuresh are basically chaos Lizard Men. As far as I can tell.

[Autoro]

Originally posted by Багряный:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No, I just stopped talking to you, because you are a moron.
You know neither Warhammer Lore, nor real world History.

Your emotions will not correct the fact that you ran away from the previous topic; after the battle, there is no point in shaking the air with dreams of your victories that you could not achieve.

From what I've seen, Jono's won the argument. Both here, and there. You're the one discarding evidence that obliterates your argument.

[Hex]

Originally posted by Aleera:

Originally posted by Hex:

Orcs were genetically engineered in both 40k and Fantasy to be immune to Chaos corruption on a biological level. They cannot be mutated by Chaos any more than Ncrons can be.

I believe there are Khornate 40k Orcs.

Originally posted by Hex:

Neither can Dwrfs, Lizardmen or Elves. Wood Elves literally live in a pocket Chaos Realm without physical mutations.

Dwarfs? -> Chaos Dwarfs.
Lizardmen -> I don't remember any, but I do recall tzeentch flamers can mutate them.
Elves -> Alkor succeeded in corrupting parts of Athel Loren and caused mutation in woodelves.

No, there is an army of Orcs that were taken by Khorne to amuse himself by making them fight and die over and over again. They are not corrupted by Chaos, merely trapped there having a good time.

Chaos Dwarfs willingly gave themselves to a Chaos entity in exchange for survival, they weren't "corrupted" the same way humans can be.

Only one, a willing subject. Also Athel Loren is a Chaos Realm in the fist place.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Hex:

No, there is an army of Orcs that were taken by Khorne to amuse himself by making them fight and die over and over again. They are not corrupted by Chaos, merely trapped there having a good time.

Chaos Dwarfs willingly gave themselves to a Chaos entity in exchange for survival, they weren't "corrupted" the same way humans can be.

Only one, a willing subject. Also Athel Loren is a Chaos Realm in the fist place.

You said they can't be corrupted, yet they can physically be mutated. Which is chaos corruption.

Asrai were starting to mutate due to their connection to the forest being tainted by Nurgle. Tzeentch flamers can and will mutate.

Any race can be corrupted / mutated against their will. Some are just highly resistant. But immunity is unheard of.

[Hex]

Originally posted by WolfHound:

Originally posted by Hex:

Necrons are not AI.

Aren't they all controlled by a handful of the old royalty who still have their souls intact?

They don't have souls, none of them. What they do have is their old consciousness.

An AI is a program that can be corrupted, they are not programs.

[Hex]

Originally posted by Aleera:

Originally posted by Hex:

No, there is an army of Orcs that were taken by Khorne to amuse himself by making them fight and die over and over again. They are not corrupted by Chaos, merely trapped there having a good time.

Chaos Dwarfs willingly gave themselves to a Chaos entity in exchange for survival, they weren't "corrupted" the same way humans can be.

Only one, a willing subject. Also Athel Loren is a Chaos Realm in the fist place.

You said they can't be corrupted, yet they can physically be mutated. Which is chaos corruption.

Asrai were starting to mutate due to their connection to the forest being tainted by Nurgle. Tzeentch flamers can and will mutate.

Any race can be corrupted / mutated against their will. Some are just highly resistant. But immunity is unheard of.

Being passively mutated due to simple proximity is not the same as willingly being mutated by a ritual.

If you want to make that argument then anything that can be damaged with magic is chaos corrupted so the entire world is just all chaos ololol

[SonofProsperoXV]

Originally posted by WolfHound:

Originally posted by Hex:

Orcs were genetically engineered in both 40k and Fantasy to be immune to Chaos corruption on a biological level. They cannot be mutated by Chaos any more than Ncrons can be.

That very strange considering that there are chaos possessed machines.

There's a difference between Necrons and basic machines. An Ad Mech robot ,for example, has a machine spirit (basically its coding) which can be corrupted. Most Necrons have a negative soul, which chaos really doesn't vibe with as we can see by Sisters of Silence being a thing. Even Necron royalty have a very minute soul compared to the average human. Necrons are also inherently linked to the C'tan with situations like the flayer virus. Finally, Necrons are older than the Chaos gods as we think of them, and are mostly very self-centered and prideful, so would never serve the gods willingly. (I know they've always existed but they were only minor warp beings until after the war in heaven)

[Lokaror]

Originally posted by WolfHound:

Originally posted by Lokaror:

I mean, if the argument is that things orcs and ogres do feeds the chaos gods and thus they are chaos alinged/adjacent, this applies to literally every single race. To have true chaos alingment is to *swear* yourself to a god, or the ruinous powers. An empire general will by his hand and orders kill swathes more than most of your average chaos followers but he is not a khornate worshipper because of this.

Intent matters much more than actual actions. A worshipper of khorne who fails to kill a single person is more aligned to khorne than the sword-master who kills hundreds in sigmars name. The actual power the gods get from these things doesn't matter, it is intent that matters. Otherwise skaven would all be slaneeshi, given their insane birth rates, hunger and other natures. But they aren't. They are creatures of the horned rat.

A merchant in the empire who knowingly sells bad grain that causes a sickness outbreak isnt a nurgle worshipper by this action alone.

Sure, it may not matter to the peasant who is being killed if its a warrior of nurgle or a goblin or ogre, but chaos alignment doesn't just mean *causing* actual chaos.

As a Catholic I'm afraid I have to somewhat disagree with some of what you said.

Everything in the universe has spiritual energy, even a patch of dirt has a very small amount of spiritual energy. Its all a matter of scale.

That merchant may not think he is a nurgle worshipper but that doesn't mean that nurgle didn't notice what he did or that nurgle would not bless him for his actions.

There is such a thing as indirect worship.

The prince of Saudi Arabia is a Muslim, however, that doesn't stop him from having massive 100 person orgies in his palace. Where Instagram models from Russia and the U.S. will literally be paid $100,000 to eat human feces out of a solid gold toilet.

So which god is the prince actually worshipping? Allah, or Satan?

https://youtu.be/Uwzw28dIqGc?si=lDoMnTW60gFOH9Fu

https://youtu.be/qJqqw1S8nHI?si=bdhwbQclluFBYpA-

I mean.... if you are going to bring your own religious feelings into this and use them as a source i may as well stop replying here. I was talking strictly in terms of warhammer. You clearly are at this point pretty dug in, especially if you are using your own real life religious beliefs. Have fun with that, i guess.

[WolfHound]

Originally posted by Lokaror:

I mean.... if you are going to bring your own religious feelings into this and use them as a source i may as well stop replying here. I was talking strictly in terms of warhammer. You clearly are at this point pretty dug in, especially if you are using your own real life religious beliefs. Have fun with that, i guess.

Except what you don't understand is that its not me bringing my religion into this. Its Games Workshop who based their own in-lore religions off of Jewdeo-Christian mythology.

You completely missed the point of what I was saying.

Which is to say... the spiritual similarity between WH religions and real life religions, or rather WH vs real life spirituality.

Kind of like the difference, or rather, the cheap similarity between Blizzard's Diablo Lord of Terror and the real life Satan/Lucifer.

...but I guess... WH is just a fun video game for you and not a borderline-western- bastardisation of your own religious beliefs.

[Ashardalon]

Originally posted by Aleera:

Originally posted by Hex:

Orcs were genetically engineered in both 40k and Fantasy to be immune to Chaos corruption on a biological level. They cannot be mutated by Chaos any more than Ncrons can be.

I believe there are Khornate 40k Orcs.

there are not
there is one ork even in the realm of khorne reborn forever
and while khorne gets sustenance from its violence, its devotion is still to gork and mork
thats a fundamental part of orks
just like gork and more are orks materialized in the warp, orks are gork and mork materialized in realspace

orcs also not a bioweapon in warhammer fantasy, only in 40k
in fantasy the old ones just didnt properly follow quarantine procedures and orc spores stuck to their ship resulting in them spreading onto the planet
orcs are just vermin

[Lokaror]

Originally posted by WolfHound:

Originally posted by Lokaror:

I mean.... if you are going to bring your own religious feelings into this and use them as a source i may as well stop replying here. I was talking strictly in terms of warhammer. You clearly are at this point pretty dug in, especially if you are using your own real life religious beliefs. Have fun with that, i guess.

Except what you don't understand is that its not me bringing my religion into this. Its Games Workshop who based their own in-lore religions off of Jewdeo-Christian mythology.

You completely missed the point of what I was saying.

Which is to say... the spiritual similarity between WH religions and real life religions, or rather WH vs real life spirituality.

Kind of like the difference, or rather, the cheap similarity between Blizzard's Diablo Lord of Terror and the real life Satan/Lucifer.

...but I guess... WH is just a fun video game for you and not a borderline-western- bastardisation of your own religious beliefs.

No, i didn't miss the point of what you were saying. I just completely disagree with it. In any case, you have a good day.