Dwarf Trollhammer torpedoes (irondrakes) ridiculously OP

[Dunadd]

A unit that only has pay a bit over 200, but has 125 armour, greater range than a crossbow, magical and armour piercing attacks, and about 65 weapon damage? That's ludicrous. This is one reason why dwarf are way too powerful in most campaigns

[Adamsevs]

I don't know about MP, but on campaign they do as well as thunderers IMO.

They may kill giants quicker thought, but not by a tremendous margin

[cc]

Entity count is also a crucial aspect of the comparison.
Irondrakes (trollhammer) don't even edge out that far above Peasant Bowmen (Poison) at a unit-to-unit matchup (not in cost matchup). Trollhammers are, however, INCREDIBLY good at killing large monsters that didn't interrupt them in melee.
Unit-to-unit, 1 trollhammer will just barely beat out 1 peasant bowmen; however, when compared as cost-to-cost you now get 2 peasant bowmen to 1 trollhammer, and the results are highly-unfavorable for the dwarfs.

[DarkFenix]

OP if you're going to mod irondrakes such that they're ridiculously strong, you don't get to complain about that afterwards. Unmodded they have 90 range (to a crossbow's 160) and no magical attacks. This on a unit that has very few models, they're specialist SEM-killers, nothing more.

[Chaoslink]

They’re a specialty unit for killing large foes while being a bit more maneuverable, but with less range, than cannons. Get them in melee and they’re not particularly dangerous. Irondrakes (standard) are the anti-infantry counterpart, basically a more mobile flame cannon.

Use their shorter range to get in close and rush through to them. They’re wasted in melee.

[Dunadd]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

OP if you're going to mod irondrakes such that they're ridiculously strong, you don't get to complain about that afterwards. Unmodded they have 90 range (to a crossbow's 160) and no magical attacks. This on a unit that has very few models, they're specialist SEM-killers, nothing more.

I don't think I have any mods installed hat affect dwarf units' stats. I have Mixer's faction unlocker and Cataph's Southern Realms. Does Mixer mod mod unit stats? And I'm looking at their stats in a Clan Angrund army. Unit name is "Irondrakes (Trollhammer torpedoes)" and they have 170 range and 69 weapon strength with both armour piercing and bonus vs large

[Mörkö]

They had significantly less range than thunderers in tabletop. Why did CA feel the need to hugely buff their range suddenly? These random changes that make no sense are totally uncalled for.

What irondrakes need is melee capability. They are just ironbreakers with ranged weapons and are supposed to be more hybrid than most hybrid units currently.

[cc]

Originally posted by Dunadd:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

complain about that afterwards. Unmodded they have 90 range (to a crossbow's 160) and no magical attacks.

And I'm looking at their stats in a Clan Angrund army. Unit name is "Irondrakes (Trollhammer torpedoes)" and they have 170 range and 69 weapon strength with both armour piercing and bonus vs large

Their range is indeed much higher after the 5.0 patch (170 is correct), making them even better at fighting large units from a distance.

[Father Ribs]

I had to 2x check because I thought they were 90 range too, but it is indeed showing 170 on the building viewer.

[DarkFenix]

Originally posted by cc:

Originally posted by Dunadd:

And I'm looking at their stats in a Clan Angrund army. Unit name is "Irondrakes (Trollhammer torpedoes)" and they have 170 range and 69 weapon strength with both armour piercing and bonus vs large

Their range is indeed much higher after the 5.0 patch (170 is correct), making them even better at fighting large units from a distance.

Wait, what? Wow, I may actually use them now, I had no idea they'd been buffed like that, that's amazing.

[Venom]

Originally posted by Dunadd:

A unit that only has pay a bit over 200, but has 125 armour, greater range than a crossbow, magical and armour piercing attacks, and about 65 weapon damage? That's ludicrous. This is one reason why dwarf are way too powerful in most campaigns

on paper they look OP till you realized how little they really do in fights. Only one faction can get there true power out so they mid to be honest.

[Zeek]

I never really used them until this dlc, and I really like them.

I have them sit back behind the archers and have them just unload into any large monsters thay crash into the front line, and watch them melt.

I actually kinda prefer them over thunderers, because they don't get cucked by line of sight and fulfill a similar role.

[Aleera]

Trollhammer torpedo's have actually more then 55 damage. They do 95 damage per shot, 115 if it's a large unit. With a extra 14 explosion damage.

Their projectiles also ignore shields unlike thunderers.

They're however horrible vs infantry, due to only being able to hit 28 infantry models with each torpedo, due to lack of penetrating models.

But if they fire at any large unit, you can watch it melt as a single volley can do up to 3k damage.

[Dunadd]

Originally posted by cc:

Entity count is also a crucial aspect of the comparison.
Irondrakes (trollhammer) don't even edge out that far above Peasant Bowmen (Poison) at a unit-to-unit matchup (not in cost matchup). Trollhammers are, however, INCREDIBLY good at killing large monsters that didn't interrupt them in melee.
Unit-to-unit, 1 trollhammer will just barely beat out 1 peasant bowmen; however, when compared as cost-to-cost you now get 2 peasant bowmen to 1 trollhammer, and the results are highly-unfavorable for the dwarfs.

I'm finding this very hard to believe unless the peasant bowmen also have 125 armour, 170 range, 69 weapon damage and armour piercing and bonus vs large

[Dunadd]

Originally posted by Dunadd:

Originally posted by cc:

Entity count is also a crucial aspect of the comparison.
Irondrakes (trollhammer) don't even edge out that far above Peasant Bowmen (Poison) at a unit-to-unit matchup (not in cost matchup). Trollhammers are, however, INCREDIBLY good at killing large monsters that didn't interrupt them in melee.
Unit-to-unit, 1 trollhammer will just barely beat out 1 peasant bowmen; however, when compared as cost-to-cost you now get 2 peasant bowmen to 1 trollhammer, and the results are highly-unfavorable for the dwarfs.

I'm finding this very hard to believe unless the peasant bowmen also have 125 armour, 170 range, 69 weapon damage and armour piercing and bonus vs large. And you could in theory pay 2 of any junk unit for the price of one good one, but there's a 20 units limit per army and no one is going to field junk units when they can field good ones. Not even the AI

[cc]

Originally posted by Zeek:

I have them sit back behind the archers and have them just unload into any large monsters thay crash into the front line, and watch them melt.

I actually kinda prefer them over thunderers, because they don't get cucked by line of sight and fulfill a similar role.

It's a perfect way to use them, being behind your own archers keeps them safer from enemy ranged AP and safer from getting stuck in melee (where they're rather weak; being about between Miners and Warriors in stats).
Their new 170 range lets them protect your entire army and absolutely wreck large units trying to penetrate your lines (and in cases when can't make a full defensive barrier, you can just let the enemy cav run into your artillery and then get shredded by your trollhammers).

Originally posted by Dunadd:

I'm finding this very hard to believe unless the peasant bowmen also have 125 armour, 170 range, 69 weapon damage and armour piercing and bonus vs large. And you could in theory pay 2 of any junk unit for the price of one good one, but there's a 20 units limit per army and no one is going to field junk units when they can field good ones. Not even the AI

I think I probably misinterpreted your original post as meaning you hated fighting Irondrakes (trollhammer) and they were overpowered, so then I went off and talked about Trollhammers fighting against other ranged units (which they should never do, since its an incorrect matchup... except maybe like against like Ushtabi Bows since they're large?). Competing in DPS, Peasant Bowmen will indeed not be anywhere close to Irondrakes (Peasant Bowmen are actually pretty great units though, cost-wise in Single Player and with Bret's no supply lines).