PLEASE Rework Siege battles

[FinaL]

In the year 2024, we're still facing ♥♥♥♥♥♥ siege battles in Warhammer 3. In my humble opinion I would rather have a BIG siege update instead of another DLC.

The biggest problems with siege are:

- Too few siege engines. Let us build temporary artillery for example! Or bombs to bring down walls!
- Unit wayfinding ! That has to be fixed! All units are really bad in fighting in streets and on walls!
- Walls need to be bigger to have better control how to fight on walls!
- Breaches have to be bigger, because cav or monsters can't slip through them!
- Walls have to have more climbing points from within the castle!
- The Gates should be larger and DONT OPEN AUTOMATICALLY! Just make them clickable and add a button to OPEN or CLOSE the door when you're in posession!
- Make all units defending a castle unbreakable, but with a penalty when leadership gets low! The fleeing units always open the gates (at the moment)

I don't know, just DO anything with sieges! It can't be right that this is the LEAST fun part in the game! The warhammer total war series is by far the best of all total wars, but this is really killing it for me

[Zeek]

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

Agree with Zeek on that. I would add, less paths to wind through inside the city would be nice. Like, cluster buildings into huge blocks leaving only a few paths. Wider paths.

THIS.

Honestly my biggest issue with sieges isn't the walls or gates or towers, it's the dozens of skinny little roads that maze everywhere. It makes the entire battle drag on and just feels like a grind.

I think this is where the historical games are better. If you look at their settlement battle maps, they offer plenty of room to maneuver and allow tactics while still giving the feeling that you're in a city. Buildings and choke points still exist, but they aren't EVERWHERE.

[Enelith]

Originally posted by FinaL:

Originally posted by Enelith:

I disagree with the Breaches, Gates and Unbreakable things.
The rest, I don't really care, nor mind (as long as it doesn't make things easier...)

Do you play regulary sieges? What are your opinions about them? Or always auto-resolve and you also don't want them in future?

I play them. Not all ofc (depending of the result or my interest), but AR has a cost which I can or not accept.

Regardless, while they could be improved, I dont want sieges to be revamp in a way it makes the logic behind it dumb. Your suggestions are all about how to attack a city, not how to defend it.

I don't want breaches to be a highway, and the idea of having gigantically large doors feels dumb to me (since both are a way to funnel armies and control them). Why would u even build gates this wide?....
(regarding the cavalry thing, you can still open another gate somewhere else since you have the mobility advantage).
As for the Unbreakable thing, it's too powerful to be given "just like that" to the Defender.

The siege equipment on the walls is ok though (specially if it's the army's artillery equipment).

[Rubyeyed]

Remove the ladders completely. Only siege towers will give attacker wall access (unless the attacker is already inside).

Some portable bomb siege weapon (would take like 3 turns to make) to heavily damage walls (high risk high reward). Carrying unit would be slowed down a lot. + make breaches a bit bigger.

Make walls more durable.

Make it possible to shoot downwards from the top of the gatehouse at enemies who are breaking the gate.

Possibility for a defender to put artillery on the walls or to build with the siege points some artillery platforms or something.

This would force ppl to actually siege with monsters/artillery for comfort or build siege weapons if they don't have any. Now it is just a rush for the walls to delete the pitiful garrison with your superior troops that crawl over the walls everywhere.

Defenders would also have a bit better chance.

[Wintersend]

TBH I'd be happy if defensive artillery wasn't entirely useless. Your own walls shut down any artillery you have more than it does the enemy. Plus weapon teams also can't go on walls because reasons. I want my ratling gunners up on the walls cackling madly while spray down advancing attacker with bullets and the ability to put cannons up to shoot down siege towers.

Can make siege towers faster to build to compensate but it feels so weird they have health but then also are almost impossible to kill unless you have an absurd number of archers.

[Aleera]

1 thing I've always hated about sieges.

Fleeing unit's opening castle gates. Not even talking your own unit's. But fleeing enemy unit's open the gates as well.
Heck MOUNTS that flee after their rider is killed open the flipping gates.

Then the other thing I detest about fleeing during sieges, my unit's should flee to inner parts to regroup. They're not fleeing in terror, they're regrouping.
Enemies should NEVER flee into the city they're sieging. That simply makes no sense.

Something I'd like to see about walls is that breaking 1 wall part, would make the wall segments next to it weaker. Making it easier to punch a "wider" hole as it were.
I want the connecting part between 2 walls to crumble if the seconds next to it break. That pillar that remains annoys me.

I want walls that have ladders on them to still be breakable. Not become invulnerable.

I want gatehouses to be breakable. Not just the gate part. If you destroy the door and the 2 wall parts / towers next to it, let the gatehouse collapse.

Give me a reason to use my artillery on anything other then Towers.

[Mörkö]

Hey the sieges are reworked in WH3 already. As a result of this super duper revolution, every single faction gets to build the SAME state of the art cardboard arrow tower. Totally what the community has asked for years. So very "creative".

[FinaL]

@Enelith
Yeah you're right with the highway thing. Rianne said a good thing: when breaches would weaken adjacent walls too and when the stupid "pillar" would be removed between two breaches you'd have plenty of space to slip through.

With the gates, you're absolutly right ^^ It's just an idea to "fix" the sieges to make more fun. But yeah, I guess it would be the wrong approach.

And the unbreakable thing is just a thought. I remember shogun 2 had this feature.

I focussed more on the OFFENSIVE part because most of the time the player is the aggressor. And ofc I would like defensive options too, but honestly they are secondary for me as long as the sieges are mostly player driven. But good point.

@Rubyeyed
I agree with everything. But I'm not sure with the ladders.

@Wintersend
yeah you're not alone with this thought.

@Rianne haha was confused because you and Enelith have the same avatar
Absolutely! That's why I suggest to make the whole gate thing MANUALLY and never open for anything when the player doesn't choose to. The AI never comes out to fight in front of the walls, so it's no issue in any way.

Your suggestion for the walls is great. I really appreciate and think this is the best way as you described.

[Isaac]

Honestly, sieges would be fine the way they are IF the path finding woulld improve so that it actually works, and IF they change the AI so that they can give (at least some) resistance, and not the joke it is right now.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by CH13F:

i dont think it needs rework except less time to build mobile towers. first turn we should be able to build 2 pairs of these instead of 1, so we can attack 4 points on walls with 4 units.
currently first wave always get outnumbered and getting way too much damage compared to rest of army, sometimes routes/wiped.

I mean really the only thing they should do if they want to rework the sieges is take out the whole supply/building towers/barricades out. But even then, they don't really need to rework the sieges.

The sieges were never that bad really and the only real problem was how ridiculously powerful the pop up towers were in major settlement battles, having the same range as their wall-mounted counterparts, and how said wall-mounted towers also could do an absurd amount of damage, like two shotting Armored Kossars. But those have been resolved for a while now.

[FinaL]

The most annoying issue for most people is the pathfinding in sieges. If they'd only fix this, most people would shed tears of joy.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

Agree with Zeek on that. I would add, less paths to wind through inside the city would be nice. Like, cluster buildings into huge blocks leaving only a few paths. Wider paths.

Originally posted by FinaL:

The most annoying issue for most people is the pathfinding in sieges. If they'd only fix this, most people would shed tears of joy.

Hmmmm, makes me wonder what people would think if this[rtw.heavengames.com] this was the city/major siege battle map design

[FinaL]

Well one bad design doesn't justify another bad design ^^ I mean, the maps look gorgeous so they just have to make proper layouts ^^'' "just" ^^

[SBA77]

Originally posted by FinaL:

Well one bad design doesn't justify another bad design ^^ I mean, the maps look gorgeous so they just have to make proper layouts ^^'' "just" ^^

It's not a bad design, it's just simple. They had central plazas (which is your soul capture point and where the AI loved to camp out) with roads connect to it on 2 to 4 sides and one roads going along the perimeter of the whole city. It was difficult to get your entire force into battle thanks to the streets but their being multiple entrances to the center would allow you to flank, at times from multiple sides.

Like I said, it wasn't bad just simple, and those sieges were pretty alright though they would get boring after a while. But then again I get the feeling that all Total War sieges have been boring, that's just the way of sieges.

[art_loots]

if they would remove 50% of the useless buildings inside the settlements, sieges would already improve by alot. now it's just choke point, into choke point, ect, ect, ect.
their is no room for mobilty and flanking, for attacker AND defending side. this makes it a slo fest that makes sieges tactical void

[FinaL]

Well I see your point. But imo sieges should be the "pinnacle" of the game - and honestly it's not : /