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I love some parts of the mod (such as bringing back Chaos invasion), but others IMO have a high chance of making the game very tedious.
Battles overall seem to be *too* slow, especially on a macro scale, taking into account how long a campaign can last. What I mean by that - some fights you will need to do manually so as to not lose important units or to keep momentum going in a campaign. This means you will have to sit through fights you know you're going to win 100% but will take an enormous amount of time and have literally zero fun because there's no challenge to them. This, over a couple dozen times in a campaign, it adds up to a lot of time spent doing not very exciting things.
Taking out skill trees in favor of randomized bonuses is... questionable. Personally, I highly dislike the addition of too many RNG mechanics in a strategy game. This IMO has the chance of not only annoying the player because they don't have synergistic bonuses, as well as making army commanders kind of same-y. RNG stuff doesn't belong in a strategy game IMO, barring some specific situations. \
Basically you trade away the ability to customize army leaders as you want, just to have army composition behave closer to tabletop. I think this "skill points system" that the mod uses should be a separate system from the vanilla skill trees of the army leaders.
The addition of extra points limitations on your armies seems fine to me, that one doesn't bother me, as it would push me to think a lot more about army composition.
The instability and devastation mechanics are interesting, but I don't know how they would affect a campaign long term.
Magic - again, RNG... I highly dislike this. I don't care if it's closer to lore (I have no idea) or if it's closer to tabletop (it's not...) or wahtever the reason behind it, but you could limit magic without relying on RNG.
RNG just sucks in a game like this because it removes agency from the player.
The changes to research rate and having a research building that actually has an impact is fine -- I'm not sure if this is just for the Epidemious faction or if it's game-wide?
The changes to the "torch building" and the Intel resource and actions is a nice one at first glance. It could be expanded to have more actions available, maybe ones that have a slight impact on the campaign map but that can make the difference in a tricky situation. The potential for a spy and sabotage type of mechanic is huge and IMO is a really good addition to the game.
All in all, some good and some bad IMO. I would have to actually play the mod to say more, this is just what I can glance from the video. I'm most concerned about how long battles would last, because I already dread having to sit through tedious battles that have to be fought manually just to have an advantage in later turns.
I'll give the mod a try.
Yes, because it's a system that allows the player to have more agency. It's not perfect by any stretch, sure. Some heroes still have a very small tree and end up being the same at max level.
But adding a randomized list of bonuses takes agency away from the player. and IMO that sucks.
Sup, guy what made the mod here. Skill tree changes are gonna be contentious for sure but they aren't (mostly) randomised. The skills are pre-determined list based on the faction and character type. There is a randomised element for generic lords and heroes - they get 3 red "rare" skills which are from a random list. It's supposed to balance out the unique traits that legendary lords and heroes get, but you don't have to pick them and it's only 3 skills out of a large list.
I do think randomisation in a strategy game can increase the strategy a lot. 4X games usually have a randomised map that heavily influences which strategies are possible, and forces the players to think on their feet and adapt to unknown situations instead of copy-pasting the same gameplan every time. You're right about the skilltrees though, those should not be randomised. It's better to have a random world and reliable tools to deal with it than vice versa.
I think the vanilla skilltrees have a lot of problems, which is why I wanted to remove them. You don't play one campaign with Karl Franz and build him differently from the last campaign. He's always the same. The game spams you with far too many skillpoints per character for the privilege of most choices being no-brainers. To top it all off, the skilltrees give you so many bonuses to units that most fights end up becoming too easy because enemy lords can't level up as fast as you and don't assign their skillpoints properly OR build armies to take advantage of the bonuses they provide anyway. In a series that has always had a problem with the game becoming too easy after the first 50 or so turns!
The magic system is actually taken directly from tabletop! Each wizard would have a level from 1 to 4 and would draw a random list of spells based on their wizard level. It was even more random - miscasts could insta-kill wizards by dragging them into the realms of magic alongside anyone standing near to them.
Yeah... this does not increase the strategy and I wouldn't blame anyone for not liking it, but I love the Warhammer tabletop magic system. It's my favourite magic system from any game ever. It really feels like a wizard is dabbling in unreliable arcane forces they can barely understand or control. You even drew your spells by drawing from a tarot deck! I would put that in my mod if I could...
Ydok4 had already added this magic system in his Wonderous Wizard Levels mod even back in Warhammer 2, if anyone wanted this as a separate feature. I'm not the only one with awful taste. There are dozens of us!
Hey, thanks for responding. First off, I want to say that I hope I don't come off as too critical - I know it can be difficult to put your work out there and have random online people come and be too negative. I can't imagine the amount of work that must go in such an ambitious project.
As for the skills - I either didn't pay enough attention to what the guy in the video was saying, or he also had a wrong impression about the skill list being random. What you say is more reasonable and makes more sense.
Oh for sure there needs to be *some* level of surprise in the gameplay, otherwise it would be like playing the same thing over and over again. However, as someone who likes highly deterministic RTS systems (such as Age of Empires 2), I think that there's also value in the variation and surprise that arises from taking different choices in similar situations. Slight variations over a longer period of time amount to a completely different output, even in a system that is more deterministic than random. LIke the map example you gave, in AoE2 maps follow a pattern in how they are populated with entities (trees, resources, geographic elements, etc.), but not much else is random.
I agree that it's better to have a random world and reliable tools to deal with it in such a game.
Yeah, vanilla skill trees are definitely problematic. Some Legendary Lords have enough skills to be able to grant you some freedom and meaningful choices, resulting in different potential builds, though. It would be great if all of them were high quality.
But I'm not sure that removing them entirely would be appreciated, if only for the fact that people like spending skill points and getting some semblance of customization, even if it's always the same path.
As for the bonuses, yeah they become all-powerful in the later parts of a campaign. I wonder how much better it would be if the red skill lines provided flat bonuses instead of % ? In that way I think they could be better tuned to still provide a meaningful improvement, but not be OP.
Oh, whoops. I had no idea, sorry about saying it's not. I only have a passing familiarity with tabletop magic. I guess in tabletop it makes more sense, because magic is way more powerful there? So it's like a huge risk you're taking that could pay off big time, or have your wizard die horribly. I'm not sure this translates well into a single player turn-based game though.
I mean, more power to you! To each their own - I simply like the current system, with the exception of some spells being absolutely useless.
Apart from all this -- I am certainly going to give your mod a try once I have some time (probably this weekend), because there are enough exciting things in it to make me want to have a closer look. All my current impressions are just from that video, so it's hardly a fair assessment. It's clear that it's made with a lot of passion!
Dungeons use the same mechanic as Imrik's dragon quests with a UI slapped on top so if those don't desync I don't think dungeons should?
I'm in the "favourites Megarandom and bans Arabia and Arena every time" camp. That way when I lose I can blame rng
Magic was weaker, but there were less models and units on the board so it's hard to say. Pit of shades, for example, would wipe out roughly half of 1 average unit. That was considered very powerful. Spells could fizzle before casting (which still consumed the mana), and if they fizzled badly they could miscast and insta kill the wizard. And spells didn't move like in total warhammer, they just scattered before casting and could land directly on top of your own units without hurting a single enemy. But that was in a board game where your wizard insta-sploding was just funny and you went next game, you didn't have to return to the campaign and recruit a new wizard.
But its definitely been interesting so far.
Unfortunately we couldn't find a way around this so it's not really multiplayer compatible because only the host can use skill points. Great mod and we were really enjoying it so this is quite sad.