How to warriors of chaos early game?

[Gits & Shiggles]

Trying to play archaeon, boris has had me on the backfoot for like 30 turns because his kislevite warriors (Men with pitchforks), have 10-15 more melee attack and defense and 20 more weapon strength then mauraders. He is spamming out CHAOS WARRIORS FROM A TIER 1 SETTLEMENT. Sorry no his are better then chaos warriors since they have an extra like 20 leadership and by our blood. The chaos warriors got entirely wiped by bear riders the first battle and so did prince ograx. What am i supposed to do to get rid of this guy? Hard Hard difficulty. No Mods.

[Gits & Shiggles]

Originally posted by Reaver79:

Marauders to Kislev warrior.
Armour. -15.
Leadership. equal.
Speed. +2
Melee attack. +10
Melee defence. -10
Weapon strength. +3 (warriors got the antilarge bonus of +15 tho and an base/AP split of 8/17, marauders got a 21/7 split).
Charge bonus. +10

Marauders got hide in forest,

Warriors got
Charge defence v. large.
Hide in forest.
Woodsmen.
Charge reflection.

Yes warriors are better, MP wise they also cost 150 gp more apice.
The AP advantage plays very little role in their matchup as there is little armour to ignore.

Your main problem must be your play style to be honest, think Archy is the one i have spent the most time on, and there is little challenge in Boris and Co. tbh.

I send archaeon and ograx as a goon squad to go kill the bear riders and patriarch while boris gets spirit leeched, by the time they are done they're about half from everythign else and one or the other dies to boris, then the tzar guard wipe my marauders and chaos warriors leaving me to throw ograx straight into elite infantry and die horribly

Cant use any of my cav before boris and the bears are dead which takes a while because then they beeline them and wipe them

[Reaver79]

If either of those are mounted you are just throwing them away.. Bear riders are anti large, play accordingly, instead push halberdiers on em.

If you want actual advice first step is giving us information instead of "It's all hopeless".. Archy is not known for having a hard starting location..

[Gits & Shiggles]

Originally posted by Reaver79:

If either of those are mounted you are just throwing them away.. Bear riders are anti large, play accordingly, instead push halberdiers on em.

If you want actual advice first step is giving us information instead of "It's all hopeless".. Archy is not known for having a hard starting location..

neither mounted they handle the bear riders extremely well

I spawn in, i wipe the slaanesh faction, i sit there and deal with boris for 20-30 turns

[Cenwalh]

I am actually currently playing an Archaon campaign on VH difficulty, so I might be able to share some tips.

IMO if you've already spent "20 to 30" turns dealing with Boris, then you should restart the campaign because this is too much time to spend on him and he would've gotten much stronger in that time.

Speed is key here. You need to take out Boris asap. Take the initial dark fortress from the Slaaneshi faction and beeline toward Boris. I believe you can vassalize the Slaanesh faction on the way there, but it doesn't matter if you do or not.

The idea is to take the fight to him and not let Boris dictate when the showdown will happen and on what terms. You should be on the attack constantly. Take his initial settlement (the one on the coast) and he should be further up north, moving on the Khorne faction. You can also lure him with a second lord and Archaon waiting in ambush.

Also, don't forget that Archaon starts with some gifted units in the pool, including a Hellcannon - take them all.

Also don't forget about gifts of chaos - I believe there is one that gives you casualty replenishment rate and extra melee attack for marauders, get that one first.

As for the fight itself, yeah War Bear Riders are by far the most dangerous unit in his army. They are basically 50% of his balance of power. What I did was kite them with my Marauder Horsemen and try to lure them away from my army. It worked (kind of) and I managed to eliminate them with some outflanking and constantly pelting them with thrown spears from the horsemen.

The Kossars he has should be constantly rear-charged by your Chaos Knights and Hellstriders - these two units were my main killers in the early game (except Archaon himself, who becomes monstrously strong really fast).

Boris himself is not that dangerous in the first few turns, so he should go down relatively fast. You can also lure him away with some Horsemen, but I would prioritize the War Bears.

Archaon also starts with Spirit Leech, which is a great spell against them because they have low entity numbers. Spam it constantly on the bears. In fact, I would go so far as to say that this is the ONLY spell you should be casting in the fight with Boris until you get rid of the War Bears.


Marauder Horsemen have 90 speed, the bears have only 75, so they shouldn't be able to catch up. A bit of micro involved, but hey, that's what makes it a great fight IMO.

[Reaver79]

Decent advice, i would say upgrade the horsemen to throwing axes tho, really helps to cut through those bears armour.
You can also get the RoR knights almost instantly, they might not be great in the long run, but they pack a decent punch early on.
And yea 20-30 turns is way too long.. He's a mediocre lord in a bad starting position, should be an easy one to remove.

[DerRitter]

marauders need a bit of a buff, and the kislevites a nerf

[Cenwalh]

Originally posted by Reaver79:

Decent advice, i would say upgrade the horsemen to throwing axes tho, really helps to cut through those bears armour.
You can also get the RoR knights almost instantly, they might not be great in the long run, but they pack a decent punch early on.
And yea 20-30 turns is way too long.. He's a mediocre lord in a bad starting position, should be an easy one to remove.

Oh yeah the RoR knights are really good to get as soon as possible, if only for the balance of power they provide in battle. I didn't mention them because I had forgotten when I recruited them and didn't recall how early you get access to them.

They are really good only if you use them grouped together with other cavalry and use their ability just before charging in. OP, remember your cavalry ABC's -- Always Be (cycle) Charging.

EDIT: If you manage to get the bears to actually break from morale, chase them down with horses until they leave the field! Ideally they should be killed if possible, but getting them off the field is ok as well.

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by Fsh:

Trying to play archaeon, boris has had me on the backfoot for like 30 turns because his kislevite warriors (Men with pitchforks), have 10-15 more melee attack and defense and 20 more weapon strength then mauraders. He is spamming out CHAOS WARRIORS FROM A TIER 1 SETTLEMENT. Sorry no his are better then chaos warriors since they have an extra like 20 leadership and by our blood. The chaos warriors got entirely wiped by bear riders the first battle and so did prince ograx. What am i supposed to do to get rid of this guy? Hard Hard difficulty. No Mods.

I know, it sounds totally weird to suggest it to THE melee oriented faction in the game, but... how about getting marauder horsemen? Distract the bow Kossars with something else, like Archaon, ride up with 6 horsemen or so to the halberdiers and throw a salvo in. They have just 30 armor and nothing else.

Bear Riders are... difficult, to say the least. The best way I found is to simply debuff them to hell with magic and then send lord+heroes. The AI will try to cycle charge with them and therefore pull away, but if your characters are mounted they will easily keep up with the chase and inflict heavy casualties.

As to why Kislevite Warriors have better stats I have no idea. The only explanation would be gold chevron red line skills, but there is no way the AI could have pumped them to such an experience level in a short amount of time. Even then, I don't quite understand the issue, considering what a sick amount of buffs you can stack on your Marauders pretty early in the campaign. They should be more than a match.

[KTVindicare]

You have Magic and he doesn't. That's how you beat him.

[endurstonehelm]

My strategy is to hit Boris the turn he takes the second Khorne settlement, usually turn 5 or 6. Boris will have a full stack of 20, plus a garrison of 6 or 7 (although the garrison won't be full strength).
So you really want to bring 25 or so units. I generally recruit a new lord every turn starting on turn 1 until I have 4 lords (including Archaon). So I have Archaon, 3 more chaos lords, Archaon's stack, and all the non-chaos warhound units that I can get. Warhounds are ok, but everything else chaos can get is better than a warhound unit. From a chaos gifts perspective, you want the marauder buff and the missile resistance buff. The missile resistance buff usually doesn't matter, but against Kislev's archery, you will need it for this one fight.
Since it is a settlement battle, Boris will lose his entire stack when you win.

[endurstonehelm]

If you are starting over, here is your turn sequence: Turn 1: recruit everything you can, defeat initial enemy, take dark fortress, recruit additional lord. Turn 2: move towards next Slannesh town, recuit 3rd lord. Turn 3 move towards next slannesh town. Turn 4 take 2nd slaneesh settlement, recruit 4th lord at the settlement you just took. Turn 5 take final slaneesh settlement (vassalize slannesh). Turn 6 move towards Khorne second town. Turn 7 attack Boris at the second Khorne town.
Sequence might be off by a turn somewhere.

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by Fsh:

I send archaeon and ograx as a goon squad to go kill the bear riders and patriarch while boris gets spirit leeched, by the time they are done they're about half from everythign else and one or the other dies to boris, then the tzar guard wipe my marauders and chaos warriors leaving me to throw ograx straight into elite infantry and die horribly

Cant use any of my cav before boris and the bears are dead which takes a while because then they beeline them and wipe them

With respect this is wrong and why you are losing. Please see my earlier comment if you want a better idea. Don't engage their strongest units if you can distract them.

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by Fsh:

I spawn in, i wipe the slaanesh faction, i sit there and deal with boris for 20-30 turns

I normally spend 3-4 turns dealing with Boris, wipe his initial army, take the settlement he just took, march, take his last settlement, done.