How to warriors of chaos early game?

[Gits & Shiggles]

Trying to play archaeon, boris has had me on the backfoot for like 30 turns because his kislevite warriors (Men with pitchforks), have 10-15 more melee attack and defense and 20 more weapon strength then mauraders. He is spamming out CHAOS WARRIORS FROM A TIER 1 SETTLEMENT. Sorry no his are better then chaos warriors since they have an extra like 20 leadership and by our blood. The chaos warriors got entirely wiped by bear riders the first battle and so did prince ograx. What am i supposed to do to get rid of this guy? Hard Hard difficulty. No Mods.

[valky]

Hm, while Dorghar (if you already have it) is a strong mount, you should disregard it when fighting against Boris. Infantry-Archaon is basically lil' Vlad or bigger Vlad ^^ both just won't die!
Same with Ograx, he already has anti-large and bear-cavalry can't do jack against such tiny models - if on foot.
Take good care of your Chaos Warriors/w halberds! They will eat bears for breakfast (and Boris) and once his 2 units of bear-cav are gone, it usually takes a bit for Boris to recruit new ones.
Never ever take the chariot-mount - it's a trap and only works for BM

Feed Marauders to wear out your enemy and keep your elites in reserve in early battles - and usually auto-resolve is stupid. Less recovery -> more aggressiveness -> more territory -> better units

Warhounds are exceptional in dealing with kossar-spam early on!

[Pseudok]

Something is buffing those kislevites like crazy, because marauder base stats are better pretty much all across the board. Try khorne dual wielders, they should butcher infantry well enough.

Bear Riders are a tougher nut to crack, as they're Kislev's doomstack material. On top of a counter unit (halberds) you're probably going to need something to debuff those. When I did my Archaon run a month or two ago, it was indeed the bear riders that gave me hardest time. So much so that in desperation I kept spamming Spirit Leeches and such on them instead of enemy heroes and lords.

[valky]

^I currently play Katarin as well, and those new halberd-guys are super-crazy to have early on. They butcher large stuff like nothing and can even hold the line quite well.

They are basically Stormvermin - without the armor, but better :Þ

[Gits & Shiggles]

Originally posted by Pseudok:

Something is buffing those kislevites like crazy, because marauder base stats are better pretty much all across the board. Try khorne dual wielders, they should butcher infantry well enough.

Bear Riders are a tougher nut to crack, as they're Kislev's doomstack material. On top of a counter unit (halberds) you're probably going to need something to debuff those. When I did my Archaon run a month or two ago, it was indeed the bear riders that gave me hardest time. So much so that in desperation I kept spamming Spirit Leeches and such on them instead of enemy heroes and lords.

cant get those yet

[[PnB] DerSalzlord]

Ramming Chaos Warriors into a Bear Rider unit is generally a very bad idea.
But to be honest I don't understand the problem, Archeon alone is already a doom stack. With Chaos Warriors you have one of the strongest factions ever and therefore an answer for absolutely everything. You have extremely strong infantry (except the marauders), almost every kind of magic, monsters and even artillery. Your heroes will be almost as resilient as dwarven heroes and you won't care about any losses because you can simply replace them immediately without any recruiting time.
Seems like you just need to experiment a bit more :).
When I see Archeon's Army after turn 25 ... I run the opposite direction, because without preparing he will destroy you.

[valky]

Originally posted by PnB Der eukalyptische Reiter:

When I see Archeon's Army after turn 25 ... I run the opposite direction, because without preparing he will destroy you.

With Malakai and lol-hammer-copters it's easy...but I often auto-resolve battles against Archaon. I really hate to fight that guy.
In one campaign he was level 43...that is scary sh*t!

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Fsh:

cant get those yet

You should start with some Chaos Warriors of Khorne with Halberds. You can swap those to the duel wielding kind if you wish, that said the Halberds are better against the bear cav.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by valky:

^I currently play Katarin as well, and those new halberd-guys are super-crazy to have early on. They butcher large stuff like nothing and can even hold the line quite well.

They are basically Stormvermin - without the armor, but better :Þ

They got a getter AP, but are almost on par with empire spearmen.
Did they handout some massive buffs on the LLs for those?

[valky]

Halberds (empire) are better in every aspect (edit: on paper!)....but freshly Kislevites easily could withstand early-orcs, while fighting Azhag. Their looser formation is also nice against enemy missile units. They seem to better swarm the enemy and every entity is in contact with the enemy.

on VH/VH 1 unit of Kislevite warrior did fend off 3 units of orcs on my flank, til I could send in my cav to relieve them....and some frost spells ^^

[Testikles]

Hm, that is not much information. What did your army look like? What was your empire like?

Usually, Boris is still consolidating when you meet him and is not much of a threat. Were you too busy in the east so that he could develop?

[SpeaksTooFast]

When I play Archeon I normally try to take out Boris ASAP, normally vassalize the last settlement of my starting enemy, get the Khorne faction to pay me to join war against Boris. Around turn 5 or 6 Boris should take his second settlement, you can try to help defend the garrison but I like to try and use a solo lord to bait him out after he captures it with Archeon in ambush stance.

If you have 2 lords and the ambush auto resolve bonus you may be able to auto this fight. If not I like using maurader spear cav to try and bait out the bear riders and boris from the rest of his army while doing some chip damage. They will probably not kill all the bears but get them on the other side of the map while the rest of your army destroys his. If Kossars are beating your chaos forces in melee without support you should probably adjust your difficulty settings till you get more comfortable with controlling your units.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by valky:

Halberds (empire) are better in every aspect (edit: on paper!)....but freshly Kislevites easily could withstand early-orcs, while fighting Azhag. Their looser formation is also nice against enemy missile units. They seem to better swarm the enemy and every entity is in contact with the enemy.

on VH/VH 1 unit of Kislevite warrior did fend off 3 units of orcs on my flank, til I could send in my cav to relieve them....and some frost spells ^^

In some quick skirmish tests the best outcome for kislevite warriors vs orc boys was a phyrric victory. The orc boys superior WS and MA often preveils. Thats with no ai stats, so unless you disabled them, kislevite warriors should lose fairly often.
Fortunatly the ai tends to build queue-blobs, making it easier to hold superior stuff. Besides campaign buffs ofc.

[valky]

skirmish doesn't even remotely compete with the campaign, as I usually put red points in my defensive units as early as possible. Even if it's only +6MD and an easy-to-get-follower for Kislev (and commandment) to let you recruit units at already +4 rank. That +10 MD more surely makes a difference.
And then there is research.....
And Lord traits....
And stances....
And circumstantial traits....
And faction traits.....

Didn't know I can test those in skirmish nowadays....

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by valky:

skirmish doesn't even remotely compete with the campaign, as I usually put red points in my defensive units as early as possible. Even if it's only +6MD and an easy-to-get-follower for Kislev (and commandment) to let you recruit units at already +4 rank. That +10 MD more surely makes a difference.
And then there is research.....

Thats why i wrote besides campaign buffs.
And why i'll say they are just slightly stronger empire spearmen. So op's claims about them compared to maras and CW's is quiet a load of bull.

[Reaver79]

Marauders to Kislev warrior.
Armour. -15.
Leadership. equal.
Speed. +2
Melee attack. +10
Melee defence. -10
Weapon strength. +3 (warriors got the antilarge bonus of +15 tho and an base/AP split of 8/17, marauders got a 21/7 split).
Charge bonus. +10

Marauders got hide in forest,

Warriors got
Charge defence v. large.
Hide in forest.
Woodsmen.
Charge reflection.
And of by our blood.

Yes warriors are better, MP wise they also cost 150 gp more apice.
The AP advantage plays very little role in their matchup as there is little armour to ignore.

Your main problem must be your play style to be honest, think Archy is the one i have spent the most time on, and there is little challenge in Boris and Co. tbh.
If you got some Chaos warrior units, maybe change them to halberdiers to give you a counter to the bear riders if you struggle that much with them.