Total War: WARHAMMER III

Total War: WARHAMMER III

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Remove teleport and ambush attack for Legions of Chaos
With that ability they are unbeatable. Stacking 3 armies in 1 place to fight 3 chaos armies also won't help, since they can ambush by teleporting to each of my armies one by one.
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Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
CrUsHeR Mar 2, 2024 @ 1:29pm 
It is probably the only useful thing they have.
Literally every WoC and Chaos faction is better at everything Daemons are trying to emulate.

Example, Kairos and Vilitch can use the teleport stance for 0 magic cost (Daemons pay 40 with no discount).

Changeling gets that too, plus 20% movement restored after ambush (so he can ambush as many armies as the teleport can reach)
Cosmic Gamer Mar 2, 2024 @ 1:31pm 
Originally posted by CrUsHeR:
It is probably the only useful thing they have.
Literally every WoC and Chaos faction is better at everything Daemons are trying to emulate.

Example, Kairos and Vilitch can use the teleport stance for 0 magic cost (Daemons pay 40 with no discount).

Changeling gets that too, plus 20% movement restored after ambush (so he can ambush as many armies as the teleport can reach)
At least they should nerf it, make some kind of a cooldown. Trying to attack at least 1 lord always end with ambush, even if I make a camp.
CrUsHeR Mar 2, 2024 @ 1:33pm 
Ambush stance is the only countermeasure.

If they have any heroes in the region, try to assassinate / wound them first before moving into their teleport range.

This minimizes their detection chance at the start of their turn. If they discover you during their turn, they can't use the teleport anymore.
Last edited by CrUsHeR; Mar 2, 2024 @ 1:35pm
Aragon Mar 2, 2024 @ 2:26pm 
It's annoying I agree. Is it unbeatable? Definitely not.
Playstyle diversity is what I like the most in this game, having to learn the enemy and how to beat them.
You have to adapt your strategy otherwise you're gonna fail.

That being said, here some tips:
* They can't ambush you if your army is in a settlement.
* Try to lure them and prepare an attack, you don't want to be attacked by them (same with Skaven).
* Play smarter, don't throw a bunch of armies in the middle of the campaign map.
* If they can reach you, they will ambush you! So stay away from their attack range.
* Don't be afraid of losing settlements, your armies are more important! Let them steal your city if in exchange you can wreck them right after that.
Last edited by Aragon; Mar 2, 2024 @ 4:08pm
Garatgh Deloi Mar 2, 2024 @ 4:06pm 
Originally posted by CrUsHeR:
Example, Kairos and Vilitch can use the teleport stance for 0 magic cost

Vilitch cannot get the teleport stance for free unless i have missed something. He does however come with a -25% discount on it for his personal army and can get a further -50% with a tech (making it cheap for his personal army, but not free).

Kairos and the Changeling can both get it for free with a late game tech (On top of that i think the Changeling can get said tech much earlier if i remember correctly).

Originally posted by Cosmic Gamer:
With that ability they are unbeatable. Stacking 3 armies in 1 place to fight 3 chaos armies also won't help, since they can ambush by teleporting to each of my armies one by one.

Just like with any enemy that can ambush on attacks, you counter it by either designing a army that isn't so weak against being ambushed*, or use the ambush stance yourself to lure them in (You don't need to trigger a ambush, simply use the stance to get them to move closer so you can get them the next turn, since the AI can't see** your army in ambush unless its discovered).

*How feasible that is depends on your race/army. But most can at least make a mobile army that has a decent chance fighting against a ambush.

**Is programmed to ignore it if we are being technical.
Last edited by Garatgh Deloi; Mar 2, 2024 @ 4:35pm
TTV/RebelBuffoon Mar 2, 2024 @ 5:24pm 
Originally posted by CrUsHeR:
It is probably the only useful thing they have.
Literally every WoC and Chaos faction is better at everything Daemons are trying to emulate.

Example, Kairos and Vilitch can use the teleport stance for 0 magic cost (Daemons pay 40 with no discount).

Changeling gets that too, plus 20% movement restored after ambush (so he can ambush as many armies as the teleport can reach)

Vilitch actually doesnt get the 0 Magic on it anymore in Vanilla, it only goes down in cost by 50%

But yea, the problem isnt that they have the Teleport stance, its the stance in General.. I cant tell you how many Head 2 Head games ive Won because I am a Tzeentch main, and guaranteed Ambushes are a deathsentence in H2H
Aleera Mar 2, 2024 @ 5:39pm 
How is this any difference then Stalk attack stance?

I mean, sure that was quite broken untill we had ambush defense stances. But unlike the Skaven, Beastmen and Nagarythe variants, I've yet to see Tzeentch armies move into position first to reinforce their attacking army. It's always just been a 1 v 1 for me.

Heck, Daemons rarely if ever pull it of due to the insanely price for WoM attached.
Cosmic Gamer Mar 2, 2024 @ 11:32pm 
Allright, thanks for the tips guys.
naapsuland Mar 3, 2024 @ 2:19am 
stop demanding nerfs, game is ALREADY TOO EASY
CrUsHeR Mar 3, 2024 @ 3:50am 
Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:
Originally posted by CrUsHeR:
Example, Kairos and Vilitch can use the teleport stance for 0 magic cost

Vilitch cannot get the teleport stance for free unless i have missed something. He does however come with a -25% discount on it for his personal army and can get a further -50% with a tech (making it cheap for his personal army, but not free).

Kairos and the Changeling can both get it for free with a late game tech (On top of that i think the Changeling can get said tech much earlier if i remember correctly).

Well the Changeling only pays 30 instead of 40 right from the start. With the tech, it is reduced by another 20 so he pays 10.

Though his short victory should give +30 WoM per turn, meaning you can't spend as much with teleport as you get back.
CrUsHeR Mar 3, 2024 @ 4:00am 
Originally posted by Unprofessional bint:
How is this any difference then Stalk attack stance?

I mean, sure that was quite broken untill we had ambush defense stances. But unlike the Skaven, Beastmen and Nagarythe variants, I've yet to see Tzeentch armies move into position first to reinforce their attacking army. It's always just been a 1 v 1 for me.

Heck, Daemons rarely if ever pull it of due to the insanely price for WoM attached.

Yeah. How is it different. Where to start?



Stalk stance is a regular ambush. But it comes with a built-in -15% success chance.

Against an army in encamp stance, it practically never works because you can't overcome the +75% ambush defence chance (which some factions can even expand upon).

The teleport stance ambush, however, always works. Always.

And it's not just that it always results into an ambush battle - unlike a regular ambush, there isn't even an escape marker to evacuate troops to. So the defender can only fight for survival, or lose every single unit in the army.

In case you haven't noticed, a regular ambush will inevitably leave survivors fleeing the battlefield, because you can't fully annihilate 20 units unless you're attacking already damaged T1 units with a matching higher tier pursuit army.
Well not unless you use auto-resolve, which never leaves survivors.

As the name says, teleport. Terrain doesn't matter. You can teleport on top of an army standing on the other side of a sea channel, mountains, otherwise blocked routes.
Aleera Mar 3, 2024 @ 4:31am 
Originally posted by CrUsHeR:
*snip*

Fine, it has a 100% chance to work. It also costs a crazy amounts of winds of magic.
Stalk attack chance can easily get to 100%, even vs encampment stance. Seeing as level, lord skills, research, region etc all apply to it.

As I have stated prior, AI factions with stalk will move other armies into range first, then attack to get a ambush of with 3 reinforcing armies vs 1. Teleport capable AI will always derp and come at you with a single stack.

Teleport also requires 100% of movement. Stalk allows you to move before hand.

So yes it's different, stalk being a far more powerful tool in the hands of the AI then teleport is.
Ashardalon Mar 3, 2024 @ 4:45am 
how dare tzeentch have any tzeentch things
the empire also shouldnt have crossbows and the dwarves shouldnt have any shields and be taller
Ashley Mar 3, 2024 @ 4:49am 
"Unbeatable" Lmao that's why people on the forums generally consider him the weakest faction?
Cosmic Gamer Mar 3, 2024 @ 4:51am 
Originally posted by Ashley:
"Unbeatable" Lmao that's why people on the forums generally consider him the weakest faction?
I didn't know how to beat him, but people already told me some advices. The topic is closed.
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Date Posted: Mar 2, 2024 @ 1:16pm
Posts: 16