Are Orks Inherently Evil?

[yuzhonglu]

Or is it the result of their shi- culture?

[Aleera]

No Orks are not inherently evil.

To us their actions are evil, but it's simply the law of nature at work. The strong survive.

[KeiranG19]

Originally posted by Pseudomonarchiadaiymo:

they just like to fight, they dont care what, its not evil so much as just a violent force of nature, especially since they grow from shrooms...

Orks with a K are 40k specific and grow from shrooms and have the psychic belief field.
Orcs with a C are in warhammer fantasy and don't grow from shrooms, they're just big green humanoids.
Black Orcs are a sub-race of orcs created by the chaos dwarfs as labourers/warriors who eventually rebelled.
Orruks are the Age of Sigmar re-imagining of orcs that are able to be copyrighted.

[Kapika96]

You mean orcs? Orks are from that janky sci-fi thingy.

[Ashardalon]

Originally posted by KeiranG19:

Originally posted by Pseudomonarchiadaiymo:

they just like to fight, they dont care what, its not evil so much as just a violent force of nature, especially since they grow from shrooms...

Orks with a K are 40k specific and grow from shrooms and have the psychic belief field.
Orcs with a C are in warhammer fantasy and don't grow from shrooms, they're just big green humanoids.
Black Orcs are a sub-race of orcs created by the chaos dwarfs as labourers/warriors who eventually rebelled.

no, orcs also grow from shrooms
their shrooms are less hardy and require goblin tending to properly mature
wich also explains why goblins are a lot smarter then the gretchin in 40k
but in rough lines the reproduction cycle is the same

[Nosferatu]

in warhammer nothing is black and white whcih is great und much more complex just like in real life.

black and white sheme is for us americans but they share the mind of a child. so cant expect more from that

[KeiranG19]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

Originally posted by KeiranG19:

Orks with a K are 40k specific and grow from shrooms and have the psychic belief field.
Orcs with a C are in warhammer fantasy and don't grow from shrooms, they're just big green humanoids.
Black Orcs are a sub-race of orcs created by the chaos dwarfs as labourers/warriors who eventually rebelled.

no, orcs also grow from shrooms
their shrooms are less hardy and require goblin tending to properly mature
wich also explains why goblins are a lot smarter then the gretchin in 40k
but in rough lines the reproduction cycle is the same

Depends on which edition of WFB you're reading, Not sure what the official line is in the new Old World setting.

In my opinion the fungus origin doesn't make much sense with black orcs being bred by chaos dwarfs.

[LoneWolf]

Originally posted by KeiranG19:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

no, orcs also grow from shrooms
their shrooms are less hardy and require goblin tending to properly mature
wich also explains why goblins are a lot smarter then the gretchin in 40k
but in rough lines the reproduction cycle is the same

Depends on which edition of WFB you're reading, Not sure what the official line is in the new Old World setting.

In my opinion the fungus origin doesn't make much sense with black orcs being bred by chaos dwarfs.

They used sorcery to mess with the spores,.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by KeiranG19:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

no, orcs also grow from shrooms
their shrooms are less hardy and require goblin tending to properly mature
wich also explains why goblins are a lot smarter then the gretchin in 40k
but in rough lines the reproduction cycle is the same

Depends on which edition of WFB you're reading, Not sure what the official line is in the new Old World setting.

In my opinion the fungus origin doesn't make much sense with black orcs being bred by chaos dwarfs.

It makes perfect sense, we do have fungal cultivation.
In fact, there are entire species of ants that farm fungi, and have drastically changed them over time, just like we did our edible plants and animals.

[Ashardalon]

Originally posted by KeiranG19:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

no, orcs also grow from shrooms
their shrooms are less hardy and require goblin tending to properly mature
wich also explains why goblins are a lot smarter then the gretchin in 40k
but in rough lines the reproduction cycle is the same

Depends on which edition of WFB you're reading, Not sure what the official line is in the new Old World setting.

In my opinion the fungus origin doesn't make much sense with black orcs being bred by chaos dwarfs.

black orcs are the exception, but even for them the breeding is part demonic and chaos science so not a big leap
the orcs arriving on the planet because their spores stuck to an old one ship and have been an invasive species that refuses to die ever since
that kindof needs the spore reproduction
because you cant have an orc couple clinging to the windshield as the old ones fly trough space

[BenShinobi]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

Originally posted by KeiranG19:

Depends on which edition of WFB you're reading, Not sure what the official line is in the new Old World setting.

In my opinion the fungus origin doesn't make much sense with black orcs being bred by chaos dwarfs.

black orcs are the exception, but even for them the breeding is part demonic and chaos science so not a big leap
the orcs arriving on the planet because their spores stuck to an old one ship and have been an invasive species that refuses to die ever since
that kindof needs the spore reproduction
because you cant have an orc couple clinging to the windshield as the old ones fly trough space

I'm not 100% but the new Old World lore is suggesting something slightly different. That either some Orcs literally stowed away on an Old One ship, which would paint the Old Ones as hilariously ♥♥♥♥ if they couldn't notice that (unless these Orcs were somehow more advanced/developed & have devolved since coming to the Old World, just doesn't sound Orcy though).

OR one or all of the Old Ones decided to bring them as part of their plans for the world. I think it's unlikely GW will go back and flesh that back story out that much so it probably makes no difference if you stick to the spores theory, but I find the idea that the Old Ones considered the Orcs as useful to their plans kind of interesting, cause what does that say about them?

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by BenShinobi:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

black orcs are the exception, but even for them the breeding is part demonic and chaos science so not a big leap
the orcs arriving on the planet because their spores stuck to an old one ship and have been an invasive species that refuses to die ever since
that kindof needs the spore reproduction
because you cant have an orc couple clinging to the windshield as the old ones fly trough space

I'm not 100% but the new Old World lore is suggesting something slightly different. That either some Orcs literally stowed away on an Old One ship, which would paint the Old Ones as hilariously ♥♥♥♥ if they couldn't notice that (unless these Orcs were somehow more advanced/developed & have devolved since coming to the Old World, just doesn't sound Orcy though).

OR one or all of the Old Ones decided to bring them as part of their plans for the world. I think it's unlikely GW will go back and flesh that back story out that much so it probably makes no difference if you stick to the spores theory, but I find the idea that the Old Ones considered the Orcs as useful to their plans kind of interesting, cause what does that say about them?

To be fair, the Old Ones were trying to create a warrior race to fight Chaos, by using Chaos-powered technology, and brought Chaos with them to terraform a planet that previously had no Chaos, in order to run their little eugenics programme.

The Old Ones were both evil AND stupid.
It is literally the running joke that they were so advanced, they no longer thought in logical terms, and literally excused all the genocides and upliftings they did on a frozen ecology world, by warming it up, with "Needs of the Many" approach, even though it benefitted ONLY THEM!

[KeiranG19]

Originally posted by BenShinobi:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

black orcs are the exception, but even for them the breeding is part demonic and chaos science so not a big leap
the orcs arriving on the planet because their spores stuck to an old one ship and have been an invasive species that refuses to die ever since
that kindof needs the spore reproduction
because you cant have an orc couple clinging to the windshield as the old ones fly trough space

I'm not 100% but the new Old World lore is suggesting something slightly different. That either some Orcs literally stowed away on an Old One ship, which would paint the Old Ones as hilariously ♥♥♥♥ if they couldn't notice that (unless these Orcs were somehow more advanced/developed & have devolved since coming to the Old World, just doesn't sound Orcy though).

OR one or all of the Old Ones decided to bring them as part of their plans for the world. I think it's unlikely GW will go back and flesh that back story out that much so it probably makes no difference if you stick to the spores theory, but I find the idea that the Old Ones considered the Orcs as useful to their plans kind of interesting, cause what does that say about them?

In 40k lore at least the Krork that the old ones created were much different to the Orks of the 41st millennium, though I'm not sure when the Krork devolved into Orks and if any of the old ones were still around by that point.

[Ashardalon]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

The Old Ones were both evil AND stupid.
It is literally the running joke that they were so advanced, they no longer thought in logical terms, and literally excused all the genocides and upliftings they did on a frozen ecology world, by warming it up, with "Needs of the Many" approach, even though it benefitted ONLY THEM!

if it allowed them to beat chaos it wouldnt have benefitted only them
it would have saved the entire galaxy
so one planet in exchange of a galaxy, is a decent trade

Originally posted by KeiranG19:

In 40k lore at least the Krork that the old ones created were much different to the Orks of the 41st millennium, though I'm not sure when the Krork devolved into Orks and if any of the old ones were still around by that point.

the old ones whernt around by then
the lack of war after the necrons saw the damage they did to the galaxy and went to sleep caused the ork degeneration
they need war to grow, they are a bioweapon unlike the orcs

[KeiranG19]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

The Old Ones were both evil AND stupid.
It is literally the running joke that they were so advanced, they no longer thought in logical terms, and literally excused all the genocides and upliftings they did on a frozen ecology world, by warming it up, with "Needs of the Many" approach, even though it benefitted ONLY THEM!

if it allowed them to beat chaos it wouldnt have benefitted only them
it would have saved the entire galaxy
so one planet in exchange of a galaxy, is a decent trade

Originally posted by KeiranG19:

In 40k lore at least the Krork that the old ones created were much different to the Orks of the 41st millennium, though I'm not sure when the Krork devolved into Orks and if any of the old ones were still around by that point.

the old ones whernt around by then
the lack of war after the necrons saw the damage they did to the galaxy and went to sleep caused the ork degeneration
they need war to grow, they are a bioweapon unlike the orcs

The point i didn't quite make was that the "orcs" that the old ones brought to the old world might have been different from the kind in the current time.

Probably not as drastic as Krork->Orks but they may have been more predictable at least.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

The Old Ones were both evil AND stupid.
It is literally the running joke that they were so advanced, they no longer thought in logical terms, and literally excused all the genocides and upliftings they did on a frozen ecology world, by warming it up, with "Needs of the Many" approach, even though it benefitted ONLY THEM!

if it allowed them to beat chaos it wouldnt have benefitted only them
it would have saved the entire galaxy
so one planet in exchange of a galaxy, is a decent trade

Originally posted by KeiranG19:

In 40k lore at least the Krork that the old ones created were much different to the Orks of the 41st millennium, though I'm not sure when the Krork devolved into Orks and if any of the old ones were still around by that point.

the old ones whernt around by then
the lack of war after the necrons saw the damage they did to the galaxy and went to sleep caused the ork degeneration
they need war to grow, they are a bioweapon unlike the orcs

They literally tried to create a species to beat Chaos, when their entire society was dependant on Chaos as a power source, which they ACTIVELY BRING WITH THEM around to new worlds it never even touched.

That is like trying to solve climate change, by creating climate change on purpose.
Literally adding fuel to a fire, and wondering why it is getting hotter.

The Old Ones are so much a contradictory and self-sabotaging species, that they actively remind the reader that Warhammer is supposed to be parody.