Total War: WARHAMMER III

Total War: WARHAMMER III

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mondrak101 Mar 12, 2024 @ 12:43am
Confederation limit ?
after around 60 turns it becomes impossible to confederate, I don't know if it is a feature or bug but after some time the button for confederation just disappears and never comes back , even if you own DLC of the race and there is no confederation penalty.

In my play through I tryed to confederate as much dwarves as I could but after I confederated 5th guy on turn 60 button for confederation disappeard and never appeared again. Is this normal ?
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
Conflagration Mar 12, 2024 @ 12:59am 
You definitely, 100%, own the DLC for the guy you want to confederate? Who is it?
SimpaFrazze Mar 12, 2024 @ 2:52am 
Did you wait 5 turns for the confederation penalty effect to go away? You can find factionwide effects on the top part of the UI in the campaign map, furthest to the right.
Father Ribs Mar 12, 2024 @ 2:59am 
Dumb questions (always ask the dumb questions):

There are still dwarf factions to confederate? There's what 5 LL, and most minor factions should be dead by turn 60.

Are you trying to confederate chaos dwarves ?

Has the dwarf faction been vassalized?

Which specific factions, can you provide a screenshot?
TasmańskiZwierz Mar 12, 2024 @ 7:11am 
Originally posted by Father Ribs:
Dumb questions (always ask the dumb questions):

There are still dwarf factions to confederate? There's what 5 LL, and most minor factions should be dead by turn 60.

Are you trying to confederate chaos dwarves ?

Has the dwarf faction been vassalized?

Which specific factions, can you provide a screenshot?

If you rush Zhufbar and Karak Azul confederation early on as Thorgrim for that decent power boost they give in early game (Barrak Var falls too early in WH3 to be confederated, given you are rather busy with Skarsnik at time they need help), you have 6 factions to confederate. 7 if Karak Hirn manage to hold, 8 if Druthu decides to not stomp Karak Norn. If you are lucky, you can confederate Kraka Drak, giving you 9 in total. Karak Zifflin, Clan Helheim, Karak Azor and Greybeard's Prospectors are rather out of reach, they get stomped way too early and easy to confederate. Sotek Spire Dawi doesn't count anyway, for there is no way for you to reach them in time, not even saying about getting relations good enough to confederate.
That's at least 7-8 confederations during regular playthrought if you get seriously into it.
Narldevan Mar 12, 2024 @ 7:53am 
You can't confederate a vassal.
TasmańskiZwierz Mar 12, 2024 @ 8:13am 
Originally posted by Narldevan:
You can't confederate a vassal.
Dwarfs can't vassalize, or at least couldn't when I was last time playing them. It would go directly against their lore.

EDIT:
Double-checked right now and yup, they can't.
Last edited by TasmańskiZwierz; Mar 12, 2024 @ 8:17am
Father Ribs Mar 12, 2024 @ 1:18pm 
[/quote]
That's at least 7-8 confederations during regular playthrought if you get seriously into it. [/quote]

That's some serious diplomatic and ground-covering hoops to jump through for some of those. I assume part of it is an early use of agents to open diplomacy ASAP? The only time I've seen Kraka Drak live is if I'm playing Kislev and I keep handing back territory I take from Talky Troll and FrankenRat.

How do you confederate the two factions south of Throm before they get swarmed? Trading land and joint war declarations, or is it more than that? Short of them losing all their armies, making them think they want to hook up seems difficult.


Originally posted by Narldevan:
You can't confederate a vassal.
[/quote]

(Regular) dwarves can't vassalize, but that doesn't mean they can't be vassalized. Haven't seen it myself, but I believe some of the WoC and TK factions have the ability to, if not the inclination.
TasmańskiZwierz Mar 12, 2024 @ 3:13pm 
Originally posted by Father Ribs:
That's at least 7-8 confederations during regular playthrought if you get seriously into it.

That's some serious diplomatic and ground-covering hoops to jump through for some of those. I assume part of it is an early use of agents to open diplomacy ASAP? The only time I've seen Kraka Drak live is if I'm playing Kislev and I keep handing back territory I take from Talky Troll and FrankenRat.

How do you confederate the two factions south of Throm before they get swarmed? Trading land and joint war declarations, or is it more than that? Short of them losing all their armies, making them think they want to hook up seems difficult.
[/quote]

Not sure who you mean by Thorm, Thorgrim or Thorek (there are no Dwarfs south of Thorek, thou). But in case of Thorgrim, further factions, like Kraka Drak, need either quick hero journey to discover them, or getting into diplomatic relations with their neighbours (i.e. Katarin for Kraka Drak) to the point you can see factions around them.

As for "how-to", its usually joint war declaration to get enough points for full-packet early diplomacy (non-aggression, trade, military access), and some occasional bribes. What you aim for is Military Alliance ASAP, since it gives hefty bonus to relations, and you will anyway be either in direct conflict with their enemies soon, or they will call you to wars too far from you to even be bothered (especially true for Kraka Drak). Afterwards just keep rolling common enemies and amass power, and they will want to jump in your bed the moment they will suffer any defeat. And since game seems to be counting power relation basing only on number of armies and active units (and their HP), you can always spam some temporary Miners doomstacks if someone is particularly resistant to confederation offers.

Back to Thorgrim - to confederate Karak Azul, you need to rush Black Crag as soon as you deal with Skarsnik and defeat Skaven there. You must be quick with it, since about same time Kazador would want to conquer Black Crag himself, and if he do so, you will loss one of main leverages (conflict with Clan Verms) in negotiation with him. Afterwards, go against Queek, and this should either give you enough relations to confederate, or at least enough time for Karaz Azul to remain alive until they'll be willing to join. Kazador can hold on his own till around 25-30ish turn, when Queek gets more serious about taking his head. Main danger here is either Wurrzag (if he go east instead of north/north-west) or Skrag (if he expands east instead of north), so you need to be ready for it. You want to confederate Kazador not only for his unique Lord ability, but also for pretty strong economy (usually he will controll, fully or partialy, more than 2 provinces). Bonus is that they will give you early contact with Thorek.

Zhubarf for most time will be very first to willingly confederate, usually as soon as Vlad slaps them in the face. You really, REALLY want this confederation fast, for ability to construct Bugman's Brewery in Karag Dromar (AI should have it at Tier II at this point and have enough Growth to reach threshhold for Tier III very soon).

Karak Hirn is harsher topic, since they aren't really willing to do anything with you, and they lie not exacly in direction you want expand to. However, they will become more friendly if you make Skrag lose some weight (which you should do, as he is serious danger to your border) and ensure that Von Carstein have his sleep in coffin uninterrupted this time (depends on overall situation, he may be first to attack after you confederate Zhubarf).

Karak Norn needs some bribing to cooperate, and will want to join pretty much only after they'll get their army stomped on by Druthu. You need to pay attention here, so you won't miss your opportunity. They aren't that much usefull, since there is nothing of value in their province, but they may be good start point to help Karak Zifflin against Kemmler (they get stomped very easly thou), or, along Karak Hirn, to get early contact and diplomatic bonuses with Clan Argund.

Karak Zifflin... as described above. Large mess to get to them and convince them, very high risk of faction being deleted before you can even do anything, nothing really worth interest in their province. I usually give up on them for that reason.

Greybeard's are another harsh topic, since they die now way faster than they used to in WH2. Arkhan is very aggresive now, and he will push on them early on. Very tricky one to do (you may want to manipulate Settra&friends into war with Arkhan, since they don't always do that, to give them better chance to survive), but that diamonds mine they hold is very, very tempting.

Kraka Drak needs to be discovered fast, and since they are doing badly on their own now, you may want to declare war on all Chaotic&Norscan factions around them (you don't have any use of them anyway, and they won't come that far south), and invite Katarin and Kostaltyn (and Boris, if by some miracle he managed to survive till then) to join party. Main and direct danger for them is Throt, so if you really want to get that Silver Hall ASAP, you may want to send expedition there (not likely to happen, thou, you will be busy on multiple other fronts; doable mainly if Ungrim decides to play along and join in, and you manage to finish off Azhag fast).

Karak Azorn... nope. Chaos Dwarfs will massacre them (if Ogres or Grimgor won't do first), and you don't ever, ever, EVER want war with Chorfs early in the game. You need Iron Drakes, Organ Guns and Slayers to stand chance against them, and before you get them, Karaz Azorn will be no more.

Clain Helheim is similar story, but they get stomped by Imrik instead (he starts at war with them). RNGesus must be very, very generous to you to let them somehow survive to the point you can even discover them (and they are still in Chorfs area of interest).

Sotek's Spire... don't even bother.

And last but not least - Barak Varr. Sad story, since they are your main window to trade with world, and have large variety of trade goods in their province, something every Dawi player is very glad to have. BUT they are on both Skrag's and Scabby Eyes crosshair literaly since turn 1, and while they could be able to hold against one of them, they can't against both in same time. And it's very hard choice, since you can either go help them, get degree of safety on east and have trade bonuses, or go against Skarsnik, secure northern border, and get neat boost to economy by capturing Mt. Gunbad. Sadly, going north is more reasonable choice, since Skarsnik will stack his gobbies fast and will be very, very eager to stab you in the back, like true Nasty Skulkers would, the moment you look elsewhere.
Last edited by TasmańskiZwierz; Mar 12, 2024 @ 3:13pm
Father Ribs Mar 12, 2024 @ 4:29pm 
That's the sorta meaty post I come to the forums for, thanks for taking the time.

How do you manage diplomacy with the WE if you try confederating the holds in their area? I don't usually deal with them when playing other factions in the area because peace with WE (and them in turn keeping the Skaven and Orcs in line) seems worth more than an extra province.

I was today days old when I learned Kazador's lord had special ability. Nice! Trying to hold off on doing a dwarf run before the next DLC but I keep getting tempted.
TasmańskiZwierz Mar 13, 2024 @ 4:52am 
Originally posted by Father Ribs:
That's the sorta meaty post I come to the forums for, thanks for taking the time.

How do you manage diplomacy with the WE if you try confederating the holds in their area? I don't usually deal with them when playing other factions in the area because peace with WE (and them in turn keeping the Skaven and Orcs in line) seems worth more than an extra province.

I was today days old when I learned Kazador's lord had special ability. Nice! Trying to hold off on doing a dwarf run before the next DLC but I keep getting tempted.

Kazador's trait goes as following: he causes fear as deafult, causes terror against Greenskins and Skaven, and gives army +5 meele attack while fighting against Greenskins, Skaven and Ogres. Pretty useful, especially early on.

As for WEs, I usually try to keep peace with them, usually placating Druthu with bribes after I confederate Karak Norn (you may do it before, but Brokk Ironpick wouldn't like that, making confederation harder). Good timing is everything there, as you need to confederate when KN have already their army spanked, but before Druthu takes any settlement. TBH, he isn't that much interested in colonizing outside Athel Loren, but sometimes he captures Karak Norn instead of just razing it, and need a lot of persuasion (and probably region trading) to give it back. Afterwards all you need to do is to keep mildly unfriendly relations with WE factions present there (getting something more is hard for Dwarfs, not even saying about keeping it).
With Druthu soothed by bribes, you need mostly to care for Orion, as he is the only one who activly pushes beyond forest borders, and is very aggresive with it (to the point he may even destroy Karak Zifflin on his first rampage). This, in turn, will piss off Belegar a bit, making negotiations with him more difficult, but I think it's small price to pay, given how hard WEs are to root out and how much trouble those provinces are in upkeeping. One common point, that will bring you both Orion and Belegar approval, is war against Skaven, especially Clan Skryre. Belegar will also approve fights against Wurrzag (who nowadays tends to come more in the Matroca direction) and Sartossa, while Orion values fighting Beastmen (especially Morghur) and MAY approve fighting Sartossa too, depending how AI diplomacy goes for him.
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Date Posted: Mar 12, 2024 @ 12:43am
Posts: 10