I honestly don't get the changling hate- But I do get the SoC DLC hate.

[Mollerz]

I am having an absolute blast with the changling.

The mechanics are so fun to employ in IE, and there's so many ways to go about it. IT sings ot me with the tactics and all that.

I already liked zeentch, but to be able to dopple gang snikch after stealing his sword and going venom style snikch with buffs is just the absolute ♥♥♥♥.

My first dopple gang out of hand was valkia aka the V-16 Viper to use as I took over cathay from the shadows. Just damn. Good stuff.

Mother Stankya and Yuan BO, as I suspected, suck balls and are pretty much bloatware outside of the fact a unit or two extends to other factions, but they aren't that great anyway.

I really wish I could have gotten the changling as its own dlc.

It's like the old days when you had to buy an album of ♥♥♥♥ songs for the one good song you liked. It is just a lame antiquated practice to bundle such opposite stuff together to sell ti for more money.

[Garatgh Deloi]

In my opinion: The Changeling is fun. But he is also a power fantasy with no challenge whatsoever. Making him fun once or twice, but boring in the long run.

That said, unlike you i do like the other factions of the DLC as well, the only thing i dislike is the price for content (but not to the point of not buying it, so i guess i can't complain to much).

[Mollerz]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

In my opinion: The Changeling is fun. But he is also a power fantasy with no challenge whatsoever. Making him fun once or twice, but boring in the long run.

I mean I hear people say that.. but quite a few LLs are like that. Malus is waaay easier and far more powerful.



Single player game is what you make of it at any rate. It's never really about the challenge, but the story you create IMHO.

[feillyne]

Trickster as a player vs Trickster as an AI = two entirely different things. (And still, it should be possible to lose. Nothing wrong with power-tripping as long as it is possible to fail and learn.)

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Mollerz:

I mean I hear people say that.. but quite a few LLs are like that. Malus is waaay easier and far more powerful.

You can still lose with Malus. You can't really lose with the changeling even if you try regardless of difficulty. Since even if the settlements get razed your cults don't go away.

Originally posted by Mollerz:

Single player game is what you make of it at any rate. It's never really about the challenge, but the story you create IMHO.

I disagree. Single player without any challenge gets boring quickly. There needs to be some.

[Mollerz]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Mollerz:

I mean I hear people say that.. but quite a few LLs are like that. Malus is waaay easier and far more powerful.

You can still lose with Malus. You can't really lose with the changeling even if you try regardless of difficulty. Since even if the settlements get razed your cults don't go away.

Originally posted by Mollerz:

Single player game is what you make of it at any rate. It's never really about the challenge, but the story you create IMHO.

I disagree. Single player without any challenge gets boring quickly. There needs to be some.

LMFAO if you can lose with malus there's nothing more I can tell you. Changling won't change anything.

[Mollerz]

Originally posted by feillyne:

Trickster as a player vs Trickster as an AI = two entirely different things. (And still, it should be possible to lose. Nothing wrong with power-tripping as long as it is possible to fail and learn.)

True that.

The game is set up so you can make it as easy or challenging as you want. And you can mod it to whatever effect.

Kind of a moot point to me. Just people parroting each other.

[Mollerz]

Originally posted by Tunguska:

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

In my opinion: The Changeling is fun. But he is also a power fantasy with no challenge whatsoever. Making him fun once or twice, but boring in the long run.

This, I can't see how he could be fun more than once. The game is already easy, you don't need to make a faction literally unbeatable, capable of spreading automatically, having the best economy in the game, and being permanently undetectable while being able to recruit in enemy territory.

It's so annoying when you play around the area he's in and get randomly ambushed. Having an invincible faction running around and potentially ruining your campaigns just isn't good design, for example, I saw someone cry about their Vlad campaign being practically ended by him the other day while being unable to do anything about it. It's annoying when you play as Oxyotl and can't do a mission because he has permanent ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ invisibility too. You can't even teleport to him.

His campaign doesn't really have that much direction and substance at the end of the day either, you just ♥♥♥♥ around for a bit, and some of the schemes (your main thing) don't even do anything from what I've seen.

The other lords in the DLC are for some of the most boring factions in the game, so it's not even good content. Except some of the units being good enough that I'd call them essential for multiplayer (which some people, contrary to the popular belief, actually play), and having cross-faction compatibility for them. At least they nerfed the units a bit so they aren't so obscenely overpowered anymore.

I'd actually rather pay the same price for Eldyra DLC than buy this crap.

F this elya person.

I'm going to start talking about hot seat in every elya post like you elya people do in other posts.

I hope they never add elya cause y'all are insufferable. Like F-18 hornet owners in DCS.

[chaosbringer42]

The only funny thing about changeling is that if you are playing with the endgame scenarios on and he goes to war with you, you cant win the game. Because you cant kill him and he will never accept peace with you. 100% balanced.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Mollerz:

F this elya person.

I'm going to start talking about hot seat in every elya post like you elya people do in other posts.

I hope they never add elya cause y'all are insufferable. Like F-18 hornet owners in DCS.

Oh so your a Pugly disciple. Wish you both luck in your pursuit of hotseat.

[Mollerz]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Mollerz:

F this elya person.

I'm going to start talking about hot seat in every elya post like you elya people do in other posts.

I hope they never add elya cause y'all are insufferable. Like F-18 hornet owners in DCS.

Oh so your a Pugly disciple. Wish you both luck in your pursuit of hotseat.

Ok fine. Thank you. And I take it back. I hope we both get what we want. And I look forward to checking this elya out. Never heard of them.

Actually.. anyone want to give me the breakdown?

[Mollerz]

Originally posted by chaosbringer42:

The only funny thing about changeling is that if you are playing with the endgame scenarios on and he goes to war with you, you cant win the game. Because you cant kill him and he will never accept peace with you. 100% balanced.

Ah see. This is the kind of info that sparks actual discussion. I can absolutely agree that shouldn't be a thing. I wasn't aware of it as I honestly seldom do a long victory as I get bored eventually :)

I love the subterfuge "the thing" aspect to it, and find it fun to impostor my way into a region and go freaky.

[Falaris]

Originally posted by Mollerz:

Originally posted by chaosbringer42:

The only funny thing about changeling is that if you are playing with the endgame scenarios on and he goes to war with you, you cant win the game. Because you cant kill him and he will never accept peace with you. 100% balanced.

Ah see. This is the kind of info that sparks actual discussion. I can absolutely agree that shouldn't be a thing. I wasn't aware of it as I honestly seldom do a long victory as I get bored eventually :)

I love the subterfuge "the thing" aspect to it, and find it fun to impostor my way into a region and go freaky.

In the patch notes for 4.1 they did say that cults would be destroyed with settlements now.

Someone claimed it didn't work still, but there's not been a lot of complaints about that lately, so .. we'll see. If it didn't take on the first try, it will on the second.

[Mollerz]

Originally posted by Falaris:

In the patch notes for 4.1 they did say that cults would be destroyed with settlements now.

Someone claimed it didn't work still, but there's not been a lot of complaints about that lately, so .. we'll see. If it didn't take on the first try, it will on the second.

I missed that part, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ yes. That should absolutely be a thing.

That isn't even a nerf. That is how it should be.

[Holeypaladin]

Originally posted by feillyne:

Trickster as a player vs Trickster as an AI = two entirely different things. (And still, it should be possible to lose. Nothing wrong with power-tripping as long as it is possible to fail and learn.)

This is the number one issue with the Changeling and hisandher associated DLC. They created a faction that is fun to play as as a player, due to the extreme power trip and ability to steamroll enemies easily while being undefeatable... but without much regard in how it affects the player's choice to pick literally any other faction to play.

Empire and VC are the most adversely affected for obvious reasons... but also anyone who ever conquers Stirland will have to contend with a faction that they can't kill, ever, who will randomly ambush their units with their overpowered invisible armies. Invisible AI enemies are annoying... ever since the Skaven and their permanently invisible, always-ambush armies, invisible enemies have been frustrating, annoying, and overall not fun to deal with.

Heck, Skaven aren't even very hard to defeat in a pitched battle, they just have so many campaign mechanics that they only ever use against the player, like freaking nukes that instantly wipe out entire units (WTF?) and spawning clanrats in the middle of your artillery, that they're just not fun to fight. Why make another AI faction with even more annoying, undefeatable stealth mechanics? Probably because they only cared about the people who wanted to play AS the Changeling, rather than those who wanted to play AGAINST the Changeling.

Stealthy factions make for extremely annoying AI enemies. Although Changeling wasn't the only major offender in SoC... Baba Yaga (Yes, that's her real name, dangit. Give her a chicken hut already!) also has the annoying Skaven-style abilities that are only ever used against the player. And it makes for a very not-fun AI enemy.

[Mollerz]

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

Stealthy enemies make for annoying AI enemies.

Stealthy enemies make for annoying enemies.

And let me tell you, experienced human players make that pain even worse.