Deceivers Campaign Feedback

[BNRON]

Positives

- I really like the deceivers campaign. To me it feels like a lot of content, and like a totally different way to play!
- I like spreading the cults
- I like that the cults can be beneficial to the settlement owner
- I (really) like that the deceiver having a maxed cult in a settlement is basically as strong as actually occupying the settlement
- I like that the changer’s skill tree boosts allied recruitment. It’s thematically great, feels fun, and works well.
- The casualty replenishment boost is great (and it feels like Tzeentch generally (Kairos) could benefit from more casualty replenishment too).
- The shape shifting abilities of the changer are fantastic! I find that even if I don’t use it much (e.g., just staying in one form) the idea of it and the theme of it is just so fun!
- I love the blue scribes champion thematically. The animations and lines are fantastic. I love that the unit is composed of two interacting characters that can dialogue back and forth. It feels great that Tzeentch can now actually access all the lores of magic, as magic supremacy (at least thematically) is so core to the fraction (and now found via both the changer and via blue scribes).
I love the Mutalith Vortex Beast unit. It is a great addition to the Tzeentch roster, and a powerful unit that feels great to use and looks amazing.
- I really like the scheme rewards. Accumulating them feels great. It would be nice to have some form of boost to ranged units (as all the army boosts only affect melee or defense).

Potential Oversights and Bugs

- Vassalizing a faction does not unlock that faction's forms. Not unlocking the faction’s forms this way feels like an oversight. Note that going from war to vassalization is pretty common, and so vassalization without a prior alliance naturally arises in normal play.
- The Blue Scribes skill that improves horrors’ barriers is either bugged or has a typo. The skill describes a significant percentage bonus to the horror’s barriers (but instead the horror’s receive a small fixed increase). (I.m.o, the skill should be a large percentage increase!)
Some of the schemes that count battles won are slightly bugged; they do not always correctly count battles.
- The Blue Scribes quest chain has a small bug where it does not always register if a cult of change has been built (possibly only for the changer having cults in ruins).
Sometimes for inexplicable reasons a changeling army is not hidden, despite being in a region with a cult (and outside of raiding stance).
- The steam tank regiment never became available for me, despite completing the scheme unlocking it.
- Minor: Chaos Sorcerer Lords of Tzeentch skills are written such that they would benefit allied recruitment units (and do not do so). (It would be cool if they did!)

Suggestions

There is no way (outside the trickster cultist) to establish targeted cults in friendly areas / without sacking a city. A changing of the ways that established a cult in a region with a friendly army would make a great addition. This changing of the ways would be helpful for many reasons:
- I find I have little use for changing of the ways in the early game due to the nature of the deceivers campaign, and hence grimoires feel useless early on. An early (and useful) changing of the ways would be amazing.
- The tricker has little use for some of the ways: e.g., track army (little threat from enemy armies) and reveal shroud (they get wide reaching map vision from their schemes anyway…). - The suggested way would make a great replacement.
- This changing of the ways would not compete with Trickster Cultist as a) it requires army presence, and so cannot establish in distant areas (unlike the cultists which can be created far away from existing armies and cults) and b) it would just give a low or zero level cult (similar to the sack option), rather than the higher leveled cult that the cultists provide.
- It feels weird that one cannot establish a cult (aside from the buildings that spread it) in friendly territory without attacking the city. Thematically, why would this be? Surely a close ally of the changer should allow cults in their cities (especially as cults can be beneficial).

Once a cult is established, the only option after attacking a city is a full raze. Only having the nuclear option (of razing) feels odd. It would be nice to have other options too, e.g. a) give someone else, and b) sack without razing. Elaboration:
- Having the option to gift territory to others would allow schemes that require others to have map presence in certain locations. E.g., a scheme could be, have a defensive pact with someone who controls this list of regions. The deceivers could then decide to either a) diplomacy up to an existing fraction that controls the area, or b) invade the area and attempt to gift it (and defend it) for an existing ally
- It is worth noting that other factions can trade conquered territory away to others, but that the changer has no such ability (as they cannot occupy territory, even temporarily).
- It would make great thematic sense, i.m.o. E.g., the changer can strew chaos by invading and gifting territory to others (potentially provoking territory wars, etc…)
If the gifting to anyone is disliked, it could be limited to a) only factions in a defensive or offensive pact, or b) only vassals.
- N.B. it should not be possible to simultaneously instill a cult and gift the settlement. Hence, to do both, two battles / army turns would be needed.

The short victory bonus (of increasing army reserves each turn) feels redundant with the schemes that reward that.

On not being able to lose, and low stakes

Some people complain about not being able to lose. While I like the different interaction dynamic (where the changer is not in as high direct competition with others), I agree there could be more tension. Later on in the campaign, the game can feel a bit purposeless, as there is little sense of territory being yours, and little threat from enemy armies.

My suggestions to address the issue

Major Suggestion: Require a Vassal

I think the changer could have a requirement to eventually always have a vassal (with a loss happening if the changer has no vassals). Benefits:
- Needing to have at least one vassal means that the changer is exposed to others. One can still spread the cult wide and far, and not care too much about how one’s vassal is doing (as long as it is alive), but it does expose one to losing.
- Having a vassal means that the changer has a sense of territory (that can be lost). Personally, I found that acquiring a vassal as the changer significantly increased my engagement, as I started to care about what enemy armies were doing.
- I feel this would fit in nicely with the themes of the character
- If having a unique lose condition is too hard line or unusual then one could instead make a softer version of needing a vassal by having lots of schemes that require a vassal, e.g., require having vassals occupy x number of settlements to enable the major scheme battle.

Implementation Suggestions:
- This could be implemented by either starting the changer with a minor fraction as a vassal, having a countdown to needing one.
- While the changer can relatively easily acquire vassals in the late game, it can be hard to get them early on, and so some tweaking might be needed to enable this dynamic (if the changer does not simply start with a vassal to begin with). E.g, the very first trickster could vassalize a minor fraction if it is used on one of their settlements.

Minor Suggestion: Schemes that others can intervene in / that expose the changer

I think one could implement schemes that require the changer’s armies to be exposed. Examples:
- Perform a rite where an army must be stationary for 10 turns at x location. During the rite the army is visible to anyone (with a notification too), and unfriendly factions are aggroed.
Have an army tagged as visible for 20 turns. It can move and act as normal, but it is visible and unfriendly factions are aggroed to attack it.

Schemes that require allies to hold certain territory (with warnings to others as they near completion).
- This requirement would work well if the post conquer gifting of settlements to others was enabled as an option.

While I like the Major Scheme battles, having some precursor requirement like these that general enemies (rather than just the major scheme scripted battle enemy) can intervene in would add a lot of depth. For example, in multiplayer another player could attempt to prevent the schemer from advancing their schemes (e.g., by defeating the revealed army / conquering the changer's ally's territory).

Tzeentch Feedback (post roster update)

- I find Tzeentch lacks a medium/long range option. All the ranged options feel so clunky and short range.
- I find flamers annoying as they don’t seem able to shoot over others, despite visually hovering at a slight elevation (and hence seeming to visually have clear line of sight).
- Tzeentch suffers from very low AP damage (especially to start with) (although research boosted Lord’s of Change, and the new Griffons and Vortex Beasts help a lot)
- Tzeentch Corruption feels very unimpactful. The Puppets of Corruption getting higher barriers feels so much better than boosting ammo percentages and the minor boosts to winds. This feeling is made worse for the changelings as the deceivers do not care about winds of magic like Kairos does (whose buildings benefit from high winds). With the scheme rewards of increasing magic reserves each turn, the channeling stance, and the short victory reward, high province winds of magic feels completely redundant, (and low enemy winds of magic feels opaque and low impact). Corruption should benefit all Tzeentch units, limiting it to just benefiting horrors is annoying.
- Tzeentch auto-resolve is very unfavourable for Kairos (less so for the changeling, as the significantly better casualty recovery helps). I think it is telling that a completed Kairos campaign is a rarer achievement than the equivalent for any of the other chaos god fractions (last time I checked).

[ArchAnge1LT]

I suggest you also post this on their forum, they do not really look for ideas here.

[BNRON]

Thanks for the tip!