Arbaal in the Khorne DLC next spring? Why I think (and hope) it will be. Would love opinions on this.

[steelmidnight]

Some of you know I am anxiously hoping for this guy. My favorite Warhammer character of all time from the tabletop. I did a thread a while back and got alot of positive responses (which surprised me tbh, and thanks for that!) explaining why I want him added in the game, who he is, what is personality is like (as many havent read the books or his lore) why he is PERFECT for this iteration of Warhammer, and what he would bring to the table. I may briefly touch on some of that here, but mainly I want to show WHY I think he is not only the perfect pick for the fourth Khorne vrs ? and ? DLC that, lets be honest, we KNOW is coming as they are obviously doing the "Storm of Chaos" style narrative with the next 3 DLCs featuring the 3 other Mono Gods.

And my posts tend to be long and detailed. Sorry about that, but this is mainly for other fans who like discussing Warhammer...

Here I why I think he is a shoe in. And if you guys can think of other reasons, plz, add. Or if you have other thoughts or think I am way off base I'd love to hear why as well. Here goes...

1) Diversity

If you look at the available Khorne Lords, they all seem kind of samey, or not exactly "Wow" material. Skarr Bloodwrath, Skulltaker, Kabhunda and the others are fantastic characters and I'd love to have them, don't get me wrong. but think of it from a marketing perspective. CA is going to get the ones who make people who don't know these characters say "Wow thats bad ass! Gotta get HIM for sure" and Arbaal fits that bill. For one thing, as I said a while back in my "Cult of Arbaal" thread some months ago, Arbaals model does NOT do him justice. Especially his mount. In actuallity, his flesh hound is HUGE compared to the others. Able to carry a 6 ft 4 fully armored Chaos Lord with a TT speed stat of 7, Thats the same speed stat as Knights have, so while he isnt as fast as regular hounds (9 speed) due to his massive bulk, hes still very fast. And his stat line reflects it (He has the statline of manticores, hydras, ect) and so, unlike many wrong impressions people have of him, he isnt just a slightly bigger flesh hound, but a true "monstrous mount" with all the power and perks of one. And THIS, I believe, would be a headliner even for those who don't know the character. CA is going to go with the characters who are most different from each other. They always have, and Arbaal is as unique as it gets due to that beast of his, and his cult status with old fans doesnt hurt either.

2) The Quotes

Around the time brilliant data miners found the quotes for the four champions of chaos characters leaking who they were, alot of people are unaware that they actually found quotes for FIVE characters, as well as a voiced lines file for Aekold Helbrass. I believe HE will be an upcoming LH, but they also found quotes for Arbaal the undefeated. Now this is just me speculating, but I think they originally intended to add Arbaal in the Champions of Chaos, but realized Valkia was a strong enough selling point that they would be wasting another "headliner" character so they saved him for a future DLC. The quotes DO NOT appear in game, but they are in the files. Yeah, I know things change, but I see this as promising.

3) The timing

Take a look at the roadmap. Notice that, if they follow it in the same pattern, that would land the Khorne vrs one RIGHT ON next years "Skulls" event! This is significant for 2 reasons.

A) What better time to hype a Khorne vrs themed DLC than during that event based on Khornate themes,

and

B)"Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull throne!" That iconic line was first used as a battle-cry for Arbaal in 3rd edition, then by his 40K counterpart who doesnt have the mount but makes up for it by being twice as nuts-Kharne the Betrayer. It practically became a popular meme and synonymous with Khorne armies after a short while. What better "Skulls for the Skull throne" character than the guy who first said it?

4) His Lore

Despite being a mortal, Arbaal almost always leads demonic armies in the books. BUT in the TT game, hes always been in the Warriors of Chaos. But I think they are done adding Lords to WoC (Man I hope not, but maybe so) at least anytime in the next couple of years, but Mono factions, while good on units, NEED Lords and start positions pretty badly. Arbaal really fits, and really stands out next to his peers such as Skarbrand.

5) His cult status

I was a fan of this character and his "exploits" before Warhammer one released, and over the years I realized I wasnt alone. There are a TON of fans who make some pretty cool fan-fiction, blogs, discussions, and especially the fan art, surrounding this guy. While Valkia is more popular on a contemporary level, Arbaal and his cult status isnt far behind.Ask any Khorne fan from the TT, and they will tell you this is one of their most wanted characters. Many (including myself) like him more than we like Skarbrand or Valkia! Personally I would go so far as to say Khorne won't be complete until this guys on the field!

I know its a year away, but some of us have been waiting for our favorite characters since the games launch in 2016, and the more I weigh it out, the more I believe he is their planned LL for the Khorne vrs DLC early next year. Tamrakhan has a similar popularity despite being a Forgeworld character, and so I think hes coming to Nurgle as well.


So what do you guys think? How many Khorne fans are also waiting for him here on steam? I saw various people recommending him on Total War Access and discord as well, and if you want to be heard about YOUR favorite characters (or hope for Arbaal with us) thats where your voice will be heard by the devs of this game- And they do listen!

And if you don't know who Arbaal the Undefeated even IS and are curious, I have a post about him you can google called "A case for the cult of Arbaal" which has links to alot of fan art as well.

Looking forward to your opinions and thoughts on this! Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne, brothers and sisters!

[GeoG85]

I hope they add in all of them.

But I personally want the Mardagg for Khorne - the manifestation of the Grimm Reaper.

[abyssalfury]

I think there's basically zero chance he doesn't get in by the end of the game's lifespan.

Does he get in this time? Probably?

I think most people would agree the Heralds likely get in as a (possibly FLC) cycle or single release, and so are unlikely this time round considering Tzeentch/Nurgle are almost certainly other characters, just based on the match ups.

I'd say it's also likely they aim for four Lords for each of the mono god factions. Slaanesh in particular is drawing real thin to even get there, and four feels about right for everyone else to get the important characters.

So it's pretty much whether they want to go for Arbaal now or save him for a future slot Considering I think Arbaal's the only one that's been 'teased' so far with loading screen quotes, I'd say it's highly likely we get him now.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by GeoG85:

I hope they add in all of them.

But I personally want the Mardagg for Khorne - the manifestation of the Grimm Reaper.

Me too. I am a Khorne fan, and I do not care about Arbaal at all.
Mardaag and Skulltaker are FAR better additions.

The whole point of Khorne Lords, is that are all manifestations of violence.
-Skarbrand is betrayal
-The Mardaag is sudden and swift death
-Skulltaker is trophy hunting

Arbaal is a boring Chaos Lord for Khorne, that has never been defeated, probably because he was someone's self-insert.
He even went to challenge Khorne itself, though nothing ever came of it, because Skarbarnd already did that plotline better.

Arbaal is just a mary sue, for edgy teenagers, with no real power or will in them, so they have to imagine themselves a warrior so fierce, they could challenge their own god.
It is puerile, and pathetic, and completely infantilizes the awsome that is Khorne, and his themes.

Arbaal even goes against his own lore, as his title of The Destroyer, makes it so that if he ever lost a battle, Khorne would murder him personally, and forever, yet he lost alongside Asavar Kul, but lives on, making Khorne a liar, or forgiving, both of which go against everything that is Khorne!

[steelmidnight]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by GeoG85:

I hope they add in all of them.

But I personally want the Mardagg for Khorne - the manifestation of the Grimm Reaper.

Me too. I am a Khorne fan, and I do not care about Arbaal at all.
Mardaag and Skulltaker are FAR better additions.

The whole point of Khorne Lords, is that are all manifestations of violence.
-Skarbrand is betrayal
-The Mardaag is sudden and swift death
-Skulltaker is trophy hunting

Arbaal is a boring Chaos Lord for Khorne, that has never been defeated, probably because he was someone's self-insert.
He even went to challenge Khorne itself, though nothing ever came of it, because Skarbarnd already did that plotline better.

Arbaal is just a mary sue, for edgy teenagers, with no real power or will in them, so they have to imagine themselves a warrior so fierce, they could challenge their own god.
It is puerile, and pathetic, and completely infantilizes the awsome that is Khorne, and his themes.

Arbaal even goes against his own lore, as his title of The Destroyer, makes it so that if he ever lost a battle, Khorne would murder him personally, and forever, yet he lost alongside Asavar Kul, but lives on, making Khorne a liar, or forgiving, both of which go against everything that is Khorne!

Your wrong on alot of this. First off, Arbaal is arrogant, and by no means a "mary sue". Mary Sue's don't lose. Arbaal got himself killed being an arrogant jackass when he taunted the incarnate of fire.

As for losing, its if he loses a personal DUEL, not a war or a battle.

Everyone automatically loves "Mary Sue"s" but people couldnt STAND being around Arbaal because of his arrogance, and the fact he was a raging nutcase at times.

The character I've hoped for since the game was first announced in 2015 is Arbaal the Undefeated. Alot of reasons. One of which is nostalgia and sentimentality, as he was the first "named" general I got to lead my armies with. Another is his lore. This guy has been a thorn in the worlds side from the get go, and his arrogance is only matched by his battle prowess. In fact, its that arrogance that got him killed in the end times. If anyone has ever seen game of thrones, just swap the Mountain and Viper duel with Arbaal and the High Elf incarnate of fire- It played out pretty much the same with Arbaal taunted a (he thought) defeated incarnate on the ground and getting himself slain. He is also (lorewise) capable of leading all daemon armies despite being mortal. And if anyone knows the lore of daemons and their attitudes, thats impressive for a human to pull off when the Human IS calling the shots and not being played for a fool! He led the famous siege of Praag, showing he is a tactician as well as a scrapper. Khorne dotes on the guy. Once he rode into the realm of Khorne to kick in his masters door and challenge him to a fight because he was "bored of weaklings" and shockingly, came back alive but a bit more subdued and humbled..... He was the first to use the war cry "Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne" which became synonymous with the faction....And lastly, he is the only Khorne character to have a unique monster mount among old world named Khornate characters (Vorgoroth and his dragon, as well as others "technically" were around, but not playable until AoS).

He is also a cult fan favorite, and has alot of fans NOT because he is undefeated, but because he is basically the Kharne the Betrayer of fantasy.

He was the poster boy for Khorne when most of todays young Warhammer players were in diapers. He is an icon of the faction. And many people who are older knew him has the face of the Khorne faction for over a decade. Like I said, fans love him as a nostalgia thing. NOT because he is a "Mary sue".

He is a quintessential villian that you can love to hate, or play as to pretend your an ass who just doesnt care about anyone or anything. So immersively he works BOTH ways.

Then theres the "Rule of cool". Arbaal in the lore should be a centerpiece model. His official model does NOT do him justice. Another fan, named David Sondered, did a painting of him according to his loreful description, and he looks like a boss! The official model also doesnt do the size of his flesh hound justice.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/12/73/06/127306ff7212853eb752b99add334b03.jpg


So yeah. I won't see this game, or the Khorne faction as complete unless he is added.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by steelmidnight:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Me too. I am a Khorne fan, and I do not care about Arbaal at all.
Mardaag and Skulltaker are FAR better additions.

The whole point of Khorne Lords, is that are all manifestations of violence.
-Skarbrand is betrayal
-The Mardaag is sudden and swift death
-Skulltaker is trophy hunting

Arbaal is a boring Chaos Lord for Khorne, that has never been defeated, probably because he was someone's self-insert.
He even went to challenge Khorne itself, though nothing ever came of it, because Skarbarnd already did that plotline better.

Arbaal is just a mary sue, for edgy teenagers, with no real power or will in them, so they have to imagine themselves a warrior so fierce, they could challenge their own god.
It is puerile, and pathetic, and completely infantilizes the awsome that is Khorne, and his themes.

Arbaal even goes against his own lore, as his title of The Destroyer, makes it so that if he ever lost a battle, Khorne would murder him personally, and forever, yet he lost alongside Asavar Kul, but lives on, making Khorne a liar, or forgiving, both of which go against everything that is Khorne!

Your wrong on alot of this. First off, Arbaal is arrogant, and by no means a "mary sue". Mary Sue's don't lose. Arbaal got himself killed being an arrogant jackass when he taunted the incarnate of fire.

As for losing, its if he loses a personal DUEL, not a war or a battle.

Everyone automatically loves "Mary Sue"s" but people couldnt STAND being around Arbaal because of his arrogance, and the fact he was a raging nutcase at times.

The character I've hoped for since the game was first announced in 2015 is Arbaal the Undefeated. Alot of reasons. One of which is nostalgia and sentimentality, as he was the first "named" general I got to lead my armies with. Another is his lore. This guy has been a thorn in the worlds side from the get go, and his arrogance is only matched by his battle prowess. In fact, its that arrogance that got him killed in the end times. If anyone has ever seen game of thrones, just swap the Mountain and Viper duel with Arbaal and the High Elf incarnate of fire- It played out pretty much the same with Arbaal taunted a (he thought) defeated incarnate on the ground and getting himself slain. He is also (lorewise) capable of leading all daemon armies despite being mortal. And if anyone knows the lore of daemons and their attitudes, thats impressive for a human to pull off when the Human IS calling the shots and not being played for a fool! He led the famous siege of Praag, showing he is a tactician as well as a scrapper. Khorne dotes on the guy. Once he rode into the realm of Khorne to kick in his masters door and challenge him to a fight because he was "bored of weaklings" and shockingly, came back alive but a bit more subdued and humbled..... He was the first to use the war cry "Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne" which became synonymous with the faction....And lastly, he is the only Khorne character to have a unique monster mount among old world named Khornate characters (Vorgoroth and his dragon, as well as others "technically" were around, but not playable until AoS).

He is also a cult fan favorite, and has alot of fans NOT because he is undefeated, but because he is basically the Kharne the Betrayer of fantasy.

He was the poster boy for Khorne when most of todays young Warhammer players were in diapers. He is an icon of the faction. And many people who are older knew him has the face of the Khorne faction for over a decade. Like I said, fans love him as a nostalgia thing. NOT because he is a "Mary sue".

He is a quintessential villian that you can love to hate, or play as to pretend your an ass who just doesnt care about anyone or anything. So immersively he works BOTH ways.

So yeah. I won't see this game, or the Khorne faction as complete unless he is added.

He should have become a Spawn, the first time he lost and lived, but somehow bent Khorne's EXTREMELY rigid rules, went it comes to being his personal champion.

That is a Mary Sue, by definition.
It is why I, a true Khorne player, never liked him.
-Challenged Khorne, even though not even the other Chaos Gods are insane enough to even directly try (Khorne cannot be beat in combat by default).
-Lost under Asavar Kul, and lived, while his title "Destroyer" literally means that Khorne would turn him into a Chaos Spawn, if he ever lost and did not die in the process.
-Came back in the Endtimes to fight an Incarnate, because some writer had a crush on him, and just had to give him a dignified ending, which we all know is EXTREMELY RARE for any true Champion of the gods, as they mostly suffer tragedy.

Sorry, but he is a clown car of Lore inconsistencies, of a teenage power fantasy character. I woul kill him myself, he is unworthy of Khorne!

[steelmidnight]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by steelmidnight:

Your wrong on alot of this. First off, Arbaal is arrogant, and by no means a "mary sue". Mary Sue's don't lose. Arbaal got himself killed being an arrogant jackass when he taunted the incarnate of fire.

As for losing, its if he loses a personal DUEL, not a war or a battle.

Everyone automatically loves "Mary Sue"s" but people couldnt STAND being around Arbaal because of his arrogance, and the fact he was a raging nutcase at times.

The character I've hoped for since the game was first announced in 2015 is Arbaal the Undefeated. Alot of reasons. One of which is nostalgia and sentimentality, as he was the first "named" general I got to lead my armies with. Another is his lore. This guy has been a thorn in the worlds side from the get go, and his arrogance is only matched by his battle prowess. In fact, its that arrogance that got him killed in the end times. If anyone has ever seen game of thrones, just swap the Mountain and Viper duel with Arbaal and the High Elf incarnate of fire- It played out pretty much the same with Arbaal taunted a (he thought) defeated incarnate on the ground and getting himself slain. He is also (lorewise) capable of leading all daemon armies despite being mortal. And if anyone knows the lore of daemons and their attitudes, thats impressive for a human to pull off when the Human IS calling the shots and not being played for a fool! He led the famous siege of Praag, showing he is a tactician as well as a scrapper. Khorne dotes on the guy. Once he rode into the realm of Khorne to kick in his masters door and challenge him to a fight because he was "bored of weaklings" and shockingly, came back alive but a bit more subdued and humbled..... He was the first to use the war cry "Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne" which became synonymous with the faction....And lastly, he is the only Khorne character to have a unique monster mount among old world named Khornate characters (Vorgoroth and his dragon, as well as others "technically" were around, but not playable until AoS).

He is also a cult fan favorite, and has alot of fans NOT because he is undefeated, but because he is basically the Kharne the Betrayer of fantasy.

He was the poster boy for Khorne when most of todays young Warhammer players were in diapers. He is an icon of the faction. And many people who are older knew him has the face of the Khorne faction for over a decade. Like I said, fans love him as a nostalgia thing. NOT because he is a "Mary sue".

He is a quintessential villian that you can love to hate, or play as to pretend your an ass who just doesnt care about anyone or anything. So immersively he works BOTH ways.

So yeah. I won't see this game, or the Khorne faction as complete unless he is added.

He should have become a Spawn, the first time he lost and lived, but somehow bent Khorne's EXTREMELY rigid rules, went it comes to being his personal champion.

That is a Mary Sue, by definition.
It is why I, a true Khorne player, never liked him.
-Challenged Khorne, even though not even the other Chaos Gods are insane enough to even directly try (Khorne cannot be beat in combat by default).
-Lost under Asavar Kul, and lived, while his title "Destroyer" literally means that Khorne would turn him into a Chaos Spawn, if he ever lost and did not die in the process.
-Came back in the Endtimes to fight an Incarnate, because some writer had a crush on him, and just had to give him a dignified ending, which we all know is EXTREMELY RARE for any true Champion of the gods, as they mostly suffer tragedy.

Sorry, but he is a clown car of Lore inconsistencies, of a teenage power fantasy character. I woul kill him myself, he in unworthy of Khorne!

Yeah, bad writers got ahold of him from time to time. I don't deny that. But like I said, he was the face of the faction for almost a decade, and theres a sentimentality to him that those characters you listed just don't have with fans.

And no, he is NOT a "Mary sue". Do you even know what a mary sue is? He may have one or two traits similar to a mary sue, but calling him one is a lame strawman argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue


That garbage you are trying to apply to Arbaal to make your case could actually be applied to 99 percent of Warhammers characters. I mean, really, have you read Valkia's lore? Archaons lore? Aenarion? Lord Kroak?

Any one of them could be called inconsistant and wildly OP. Your argument in the context of this universe is pretty lame.

[jonoliveira12]

There is absolutely no fault in Valkia's lore, she was even defeated several times, and only brought back because Khorne loves her, and she is a daemon, so unkillable.

[Fear2288]

He’s literally just a generic Khorne-leaning chaos lord on a big skin puppy.

That’s not very interesting.

I get your sentimentality, but it’s making you bias. I get that you think he’s super important within the lore and stuff, but he’s about as special as any other named generic character.

You could argue and make just as strong of a case for them putting Eldyra in the game as Arbaalsac.

Also, don’t take his quotes as being proof he’s gonna be in the game. The Red Duke and I think a dwarf lord has a whole Lord selection video you can see when using a mod like Mixu’s Unlocker. Will they be fully added one day? Maybe but who knows.

[Narldevan]

We don't need dlc.

[steelmidnight]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

There is absolutely no fault in Valkia's lore, she was even defeated several times, and only brought back because Khorne loves her, and she is a daemon, so unkillable.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Valkia's lore. I love ALL the Khornate characters. What I am saying is that every character has ridiculously op stories, and most have inconsistencies. Saying that Arbaal is different in any way from other OP characters is a dumb argument. Just like saying he is a "self insert"? The guy is a raging psychopath, aside from being a brilliant general. Hes an arrogant ass who thinks he is better than everyone else. Hes basically Sigvald with a Khornate mark. Your not supposed to like him, or want to be him. Your supposed to see him as an immersive villain adding flair to the universe.

He is a Khornate mortal Lord representing the best of those Khorne chosen and marked Chaos warrior troops. That's not boring at all. And for people who like flesh hounds, his mount is awesome. His design is great, and if you look through other forums at how many others ALSO want this guy, including several on the main Warhammer forum page, you'll see that he resonates with fans of the faction and has outlasted many other chao's characters in popularity. Skulltaker could be called "Just a fancy bloodletter". Skarbrand could be called "Just a bloodthirster" in the same way Arbaal could be called "Just a Khorne warrior on a hound".


And in the narrative of the siege of Praag, he WAS an important character. They don't all have to be world-shaping phenomenally impacting characters to be appealing. And the fact that he ISNT dispels that cringy "Mary Sue" argument.

He's fluff. And he makes the Khorne faction more colorful with his presence. And I am sure enough people want him, that he should be included. Seems to me, that the only ones who wouldnt want to see him added to Khorne are people who just don't like the faction or something.

Whats also cringy, is when people try to be an edgelord, by putting something down and insulting people who like something. In a circular way, they become what they insult.

[steelmidnight]

Anyone who thinks THIS is "generic and boring" is an idiot or a troll lol.....

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.Zfk2pYKq3fCYmMjLMLrGVgHaJF?w=200&h=245&c=7&r=0&o=5&dpr=1.3&pid=1.7

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by steelmidnight:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

There is absolutely no fault in Valkia's lore, she was even defeated several times, and only brought back because Khorne loves her, and she is a daemon, so unkillable.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Valkia's lore. I love ALL the Khornate characters. What I am saying is that every character has ridiculously op stories, and most have inconsistencies. Saying that Arbaal is different in any way from other OP characters is a dumb argument. Just like saying he is a "self insert"? The guy is a raging psychopath, aside from being a brilliant general. Hes an arrogant ass who thinks he is better than everyone else. Hes basically Sigvald with a Khornate mark. Your not supposed to like him, or want to be him. Your supposed to see him as an immersive villain adding flair to the universe.

He is a Khornate mortal Lord representing the best of those Khorne chosen and marked Chaos warrior troops. That's not boring at all. And for people who like flesh hounds, his mount is awesome. His design is great, and if you look through other forums at how many others ALSO want this guy, including several on the main Warhammer forum page, you'll see that he resonates with fans of the faction and has outlasted many other chao's characters in popularity. Skulltaker could be called "Just a fancy bloodletter". Skarbrand could be called "Just a bloodthirster" in the same way Arbaal could be called "Just a Khorne warrior on a hound".


And in the narrative of the siege of Praag, he WAS an important character. They don't all have to be world-shaping phenomenally impacting characters to be appealing. And the fact that he ISNT dispels that cringy "Mary Sue" argument.

He's fluff. And he makes the Khorne faction more colorful with his presence. And I am sure enough people want him, that he should be included. Seems to me, that the only ones who wouldnt want to see him added to Khorne are people who just don't like the faction or something.

Whats also cringy, is when people try to be an edgelord, by putting something down and insulting people who like something. In a circular way, they become what they insult.

Lol, accusing me of not liking the Khorne faction, while proposing the add of Arbaal, the guy that made Khorne a liar.

Sorry, the Mardaag is better. A bloody Grim Reaper that represents violent and perplexing death, whose Dark Fortress not even Archaon dared to assault, is better than the guy that should have become a Spawn when he fled the field.

[MrSoul]

How is this a debate?

Regardless fact he was sidelined for other named characters in chaos line up more over the years, every, single, time, he is ever mentioned he is singled out, as not just a, not just some, but THE greatest champion of Khorne and his literal favourite, who is given the singular use(in lore and rules) boon of the Destroyer, and Khorne's personal flesh hound.

He is literally the guy who defines what the Khornate warriors want to look like and emulate, not a copy of them.

He loses essentially to another character's dues ex machina/plot armour so I don't get whole mary sue thing either lol and he's also old balls af to WFB.

He'd be a good add over others(like some dude only deepnerds remember cos on cover art of the original release of WFB, before was even called WFB, and I only know that because watched some YT vid on history of the game's releases over the years, had no clue who Harry the Hammer was other than some painfully 80's British name for a character) far as I see after literal five minutes looking up some source quotes on him.