were Grail Knights always unstoppable on the charge?

[Sovieticozasz]

Due to the changes today i have tried the grail knights and guardians vs every polearm unit on the attack vs a braced , defending AI, and they ignore more or less anything, you can just walk through units as if they were not even there. ¿has it always been like that or is it a result of the changes today?. Because they appear quite literally unstoppable.

[Andrewbh2003]

yeah i get GK are supposed to be OP and super human and whatnot but this seems a bit too much lol

[IonizedMercury]

Messaggio originale di Red Psi:

Fendelphi, no, I am saying 3.5-4.5k EACH. Cannons do well on them yes, but once they close, they are mostly unstoppable. Since all the infantry just get run over, they can hardly hit back. Certainly over-tuned, and I'm not one to complain lightly (I'm very competitive and don't often bring things up). I never complained about Hellstriders, Chorf Bulls, or none of that. These grails though, too much!

P.S. OP shows test results where the grail knights charge through 3 braced PGs without taking any damage. That is certainly not normal. Chariots are not even supposed to be able to run through units that easily (and I say that from experience, playing quite a few HE vs DW matchups throughout my time playing WH).

It's because they have been given the properties of chariots but their models hit and hurtboxes are still cavalry shaped. IE much smaller than those of real chariots. That's what leads to their strange behaviour.

[dollars202]

Finally how it's supposed to be, gonna have to cheese the Frenc...I mean the Bretonnians.

[IonizedMercury]

Messaggio originale di dollars202:

Finally how it's supposed to be, gonna have to cheese the Frenc...I mean the Bretonnians.

You are aware that Grail Knights now also do barely any damage on the charge, right?`Is that how it's supposed to be?

[Sovieticozasz]

Messaggio originale di Fendelphi:

Messaggio originale di Red Psi:

Can confirm that Grail Knights are over-tuned. Played several multiplayer games today against someone bringing triple Grail Knights and they were consistently bringing in 3.5-4.5k damage value. Those are insane numbers for non-RoR non-Lord units, even when bringing hard counters against them. In lance formation they were unstoppable, running through 3 units of giant slayers, braced dawi, and cycling my thunderers through all of that non-stop for 8 minutes. I wonder if this is related to the pump wagon bug that Turin uncovered as well.

I LOVE cav, and I think it brings more skill to the table. But CA, this is not it. Please fix.

So what you are saying is that they did not pay for themselves?
Grail Knights cost 1700 per unit. So 3x 1700 is 5100. If they were "consistently getting 3.5-4.5k", they were technically underperforming, right?


Lance formations makes them extreme powerful on the charge, but also decreases their Melee Defense. And they can still be stopped by braced elite anti-large infantry(assuming they take the charge from the front, obviously), and they suffer insane damage if something like a cannonball plows through them.

At the moment, there is no infantry in the game, that stops their charge from the front if the player that uses the grail knights uses them correctly.

i have checked every, single , one. the only 2 units that at least slows the grail unit are the chosen with halberds, and the temple guard, and clicking in another unit behind that or even in the ground , at the time of impact, makes the grail knights go through.

[Verchial]

I don’t mind tho. Brets need all the over-tuning they can get. Mouthy not-French snobs.

[IonizedMercury]

Messaggio originale di Hurricane:

They're good but nothing broken... bret overall got a huge nerf this patch... its peasants are useless now

Grail Knights are absolutely broken, they can basically ghost through any infantry unit.

[Teh_Diplomat]

Sounds amazing

[Sovieticozasz]

Messaggio originale di Hurricane:

Messaggio originale di IonizedMercury:

Grail Knights are absolutely broken, they can basically ghost through any infantry unit.

Maybe on easy battle difficulty... not on very hard... ogres just shredded some of mine... and they are LARGE!!!

Vrs infanty they do trample them but dont instantly kill them, they are tad better than before the patch, but bret infantry got an overall nerf.

Ogres are not infantry, and grail knights trade efficiently vs ANY ogre unit in the game at value parity except giants, (assuming no cicle charging).

the fact that OK are the most op faction in the game right now due to the gnoblars and cost of their units is another discussion entirely

[Rosh+]

Friend of mine and I tested a unit of grail knights vs 12 units of forward facing tzeentch chosen halberds in a line today.

O - grail
I - halberds

O 1
I
I 12
I

They can push through all of the units, but will take a beating and likely rout. We also tested a handful of grail knights vs kholek, and they managed to pushed kholek backwards, despite having 5x less mass than him. You can't tie them down without incredible numbers of monsters knocking them around; They will just leave combat, and can at will.

They're way overtuned. You can't play around them(against another player). If you have artillery and grail knights are on the field, your artillery is dead because no infantry exists that can stop them, polearms or not. Cavalry diamonds still work against the AI, so it's not a problem in SP.

tl;dr - there is no infantry in the game that can stop grail knights from breaking through a line.

[Fistimus Maximus]

Messaggio originale di MT:

Messaggio originale di Sovieticozasz:

Because they appear quite literally unstoppable.

as they should be

it was necessary, Bretonnia was too easily countered with anti large infantry spam. Now you need to rely more on archers and artillery.

If its just for the grail vow units than its fine, they also got a cost increase.
If the errants, realm and questing knights also ignore bracing than something isnt right.

phalanx units were designed to stop cav, I get they needed buffing but shouldnt be unstoppable.

[pascal.difolco]

Messaggio originale di IonizedMercury:

Messaggio originale di Hurricane:

They're good but nothing broken... bret overall got a huge nerf this patch... its peasants are useless now

Grail Knights are absolutely broken, they can basically ghost through any infantry unit.

Agreed, anti cav infantry is absolutely useless against them

[Sovieticozasz]

Messaggio originale di Typharius:

I still don't see this mentioned in bug reports

CA has been notified and sent the relevant info.

[Who trains thy hands for war?]

Messaggio originale di The Grand Mugwump:

I decided to test this myself by pitting a paladin, 1 grail knight and 1 grail guardian against a chaos lord + 4 chaos warrior halberds (identical point cost), and I found a few things that were interesting.

1. At the start of the battle, the AI was smart and braced their halberds. I sent both grail units against one halberd on the flank while in the lance formation, and none of the halberds were sent flying. The halberds fairly effectively stopped the charge and dealt considerable charge reflection back to the grail boys. This was actually the most damage the grail boys took for the rest of the fight with the chaos warrior halberds.

2. After I pulled the grail boys back for a cycle charge, the AI completely forgot what tactics are and told its halberds to blindly charge at me. From this point onwards, I got the same results as the OP. My grail boys in the lance formation cut through all 4 halberd units blobbed together like a hot knife through butter. There were bodies flying everywhere and massive damage being dealt to the halberds with the grail boys taking minimal damage on each charge due to constantly moving and most halberds being on the ground and unable to counterattack.

just like the battle of hastings. and dyrrachium

[Uugly]

Messaggio originale di Andrewbh2003:

yeah i get GK are supposed to be OP and super human and whatnot but this seems a bit too much lol

Human are already more monster than human. Kislev Tzsar Guards are already beat Black Orc and Dwarve best infantry 1 on 1.