Anyone else Mod the game to Remove cheating AI?

[ɛӿρ.ɛӿɛ]

I use the Please Stop Cheating workshop modification, couldn't stand the AI blatantly cheating when I first played Realms of Chaos and Immortal Empires.

Having the AI cheat on campaign map is enough, the battle difficulty modifiers that aren't even displayed are even more BS.

Cheating AI in 2023 should not be required.

Why is the AI in Red Alert 2 from 2001 better then this game? Sad.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by ɛӿρ.ɛӿɛ:

Why is the AI in Red Alert 2 from 2001 better then this game? Sad.

Probably because it's an AI for a different genre of game

[Tommytools]

Originally posted by ɛӿρ.ɛӿɛ:

Why is the AI in Red Alert 2 from 2001 better then this game? Sad.

I did a lot of modding for RA2 back in the day, the AI was dumber by a long shot. Even if it was a similar game (it's not, like SBA77 says) the RA2 AI was so incredibly stupid, just getting it to vary its attack routes was a must (first mod I'd made).

It also cheated far worse than the TW:WH AI, getting more resources from their harvesters, cheaper units that were produced faster just so it could give a human player some challenge. That was at the lowest difficulty, at max difficulty it just cheated far more, but was still sending its forces directly at the densest defenses (without a mod to vary its attack patterns).

Take off the rose tinted glasses, RA2's AI (actually all of Westwood's games AIs) was far dumber than TW:WH, despite the fact that RA2 was a far simpler game.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by Tommytools:

Originally posted by ɛӿρ.ɛӿɛ:

Why is the AI in Red Alert 2 from 2001 better then this game? Sad.

I did a lot of modding for RA2 back in the day, the AI was dumber by a long shot. Even if it was a similar game (it's not, like SBA77 says) the RA2 AI was so incredibly stupid, just getting it to vary its attack routes was a must (first mod I'd made).

Red Alert is a classic RTS, Total War is a Real-time Tactics game, a subgenre of RTS, and I'd say the two are different enough to have different AIs. The typical RTS has much less complex combat than Total War's, even the more arcadey titles. In Total War the AI has to worry about formations and maneveuring and even flanking, and while critics accuse the worst Total War titles of having blobs, that's par for the course for your typical RTSs.

[Tommytools]

Originally posted by SBA77:

Originally posted by Tommytools:

I did a lot of modding for RA2 back in the day, the AI was dumber by a long shot. Even if it was a similar game (it's not, like SBA77 says) the RA2 AI was so incredibly stupid, just getting it to vary its attack routes was a must (first mod I'd made).

Red Alert is a classic RTS, Total War is a Real-time Tactics, a subgenre of RTS, and I'd say the two are different enough to have different AIs. The typical RTS has much less complex combat than Total War's, even the more arcadey titles. In Total War the AI has to worry about formations and maneveuring and even flanking, and while critics accuse the worst Total War titles of having blobs, that's par for the course for your typical RTSs.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly, though TW:WH is turn based strategy with real time tactics, but that's just semantics. AI in games has come a long way since those days, but they remain predictable, mainly because they're nothing more than a complex series of if-then-else statements. Once you figure out what they do in certain circumstances it is easy to abuse the computer's limited options.

God forbid those folks complaining about bad AI actually meet a proper AI in a game, they'd be complaining they can never win.

[KoboldUtopian]

Originally posted by Tommytools:

Originally posted by ɛӿρ.ɛӿɛ:

Why is the AI in Red Alert 2 from 2001 better then this game? Sad.

I did a lot of modding for RA2 back in the day, the AI was dumber by a long shot. Even if it was a similar game (it's not, like SBA77 says) the RA2 AI was so incredibly stupid, just getting it to vary its attack routes was a must (first mod I'd made).

It also cheated far worse than the TW:WH AI, getting more resources from their harvesters, cheaper units that were produced faster just so it could give a human player some challenge. That was at the lowest difficulty, at max difficulty it just cheated far more, but was still sending its forces directly at the densest defenses (without a mod to vary its attack patterns).

Take off the rose tinted glasses, RA2's AI (actually all of Westwood's games AIs) was far dumber than TW:WH, despite the fact that RA2 was a far simpler game.

I was going to make a joke about how at least the TWWH Ai isn't completely stymied by sandbags but then I built a couple of barricades.

[Tommytools]

Originally posted by CoerciveUtopian:

I was going to make a joke about how at least the TWWH Ai isn't completely stymied by sandbags but then I built a couple of barricades.

Thanks for that, reminding me of the sandbags gave me a good laugh.

[Tommytools]

More on topic: I would love better computer controlled enemies, but that's much easier said than done.

Barring a true artificial intelligence, one would have to program every possible situation and how it is to react. We Humans can be unpredictable, inventive and creative, which means you get situations where a player does something that the "AI" script doesn't cover. If it isn't covered, it doesn't exist as far as the script is concerned. And hey presto, we have the AI being an idiot.

[Orachin]

I think the problem with TWWH3 is not that AI cheats, but the sole fact that it cheats openly in your face. Its like playing chess when ur opponent has a shotgun down ur face.
Lets be real almost every AI in strategy games cheat. If developer is competent enough it will either: 1) hide the fact that AI cheats, so that you cant actually see it every minute of being ingame; 2) let user adjust the amount of cheats that AI gets or disable cheats whatsoever (like stellaris does for example).
The problem with TWWH3 is that you can tone down some of the cheats via difficulty settings, but even if you play on easy/normal you will frequently encounter a "hey, player, i know you cant do this sht, but i can, so deal with it looser" behavior of AI (like running away from a fight when in force march stance, "seeing" ur ambush stance armies etc).
And it is not a player problem its a developer problem, they are responsible for the current state of the game and it is their job to fix it. Players have paid them enough to get a good quality product.

[Tommytools]

Oh I don't disagree, I don't like seeing the AI cheat, but it is something I have accepted as part of gaming. But then I've always been good at discerning patterns, so from my perspective I have never played a game where it wasn't obvious to me that the AI cheated.

[Invisible]

AI cannot cheat. They are created by humand devs to behave as intended. If the devs decide to give them complete information, then that's it. The only ones that cheat/cheese are human players.

Depending on difficulty they get boni, that are documented. No hidden tricks.

[midori]

it isn't hard enough to remove its cheat really, and if it is lower the difficulty

[dulany67]

Originally posted by Orachin:

I think the problem with TWWH3 is not that AI cheats, but the sole fact that it cheats openly in your face.

This. The game does a horrible job of disguising that the AI is using factions to dogpile the player, rather than each faction trying to win the game. It makes things less interesting, and it kills immersion.

Fortunately, there are AI mods that help but you should also increase difficulty.

[Basarab Laiota]

Originally posted by ɛӿρ.ɛӿɛ:

the AI in Red Alert 2 from 2001 better

lmao wtf no it wasn't
i used to play 1vs7 vs Brutal AI and would win easily because red alert 2 AI sends all their units into your base defences...

[Enelith]

I don't (I'm not a heavy mods fan).
I don't remove their abilities to get buffs and else, otherwise, they don't stand a chance.

[MrSoul]

The AI cheats it’s ass off in RA, hell are you talking about? Ignoring diff buffs, it can ALWAYS see through the fog of war xD

Like this is standard fare for so many RTS games to give AI extra resources, unit buffs etc especially on higher diffs.