is it even possible to make enemies break anymore?

[finn12koch]

campaign difficulty is on very hard and battle difficulty on easy but still i never see enemy units breaking before loosing about 95% of their health, every fight is until one of the units is completly defeated

[Knightspace]

Depends on both factions, what lords and heroes are on a battlefield, units themselves...

Trolls, for example, will break much earlier than Sisters of Avelorn, you know?

[Captain Baldy]

Yes of course? I have my armies balanced for that very reason. There is nothing worse, routing an army only to find the routers are faster than your chasers. Seeing all that lovely cheddar disappear is not nice to see. I aim for complete annihilation if I can... and often I can
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2979294877

[Zeek]

Yes, they do.

It would help to know what units specifically you are referring to as some are immune to routing.

[finn12koch]

Originally posted by Zeek:

Yes, they do.

It would help to know what units specifically you are referring to as some are immune to routing.

it doesnt matter what faction im fighting, norsca dark elves orcs wood elves chaos, im almost on turn 80 and after countless battles i didnt see a single unit breaking after getting charged by cavalry or getting massive burst damage from a spell they always fight until they have like 5% health left and maybe then run away

[Zeek]

Originally posted by finn12koch:

Originally posted by Zeek:

Yes, they do.

It would help to know what units specifically you are referring to as some are immune to routing.

it doesnt matter what faction im fighting, norsca dark elves orcs wood elves chaos, im almost on turn 80 and after countless battles i didnt see a single unit breaking after getting charged by cavalry or getting massive burst damage from a spell they always fight until they have like 5% health left and maybe then run away

Are you using any mods that affect battles?

[Ashley]

Yes? Did you mess up and put the wrong settings that you say you didn't? Maybe changed battle difficult or something mid campaign? Cause units fighting to the near death is a higher difficulty thing if you're doing massive damage then yeah they should be breaking in my experience

[Amereth]

Units don't break because of cavalry charge unless their leadership is low.

Them losing health isn't the only factor for routing.

everything is related to leadership.

If they get surrounded they will have penalties to their leadership.

some lords and faction will have a easier time to destroy morale. Like Morathi for example comes with a debuff to leadership with her skills and with a spell.

Vigor has an impact on leadership. The more tired they are the more likely they will break.

Terror/fear is nice to have. Fear is often useless against high tier troops since a lot of them are immune.

Im not 100% on this but i think if they lose models they tend to break faster, take that with a grain of salt i would need to double check that to be sure.

if you play on easy you should see the enemy rout once in a while.


I play vh/vh and a lot of the time cavalry that charge at me break before reaching my line, so if it doesn't happens on easy it isn't normal and like everyone else said mods might be the reason.


overhauls like SFO do change stuff like that.

[SomeGuy1]

Originally posted by Amereth:

Units don't break because of cavalry charge unless their leadership is low.

Them losing health isn't the only factor for routing.

everything is related to leadership.

If they get surrounded they will have penalties to their leadership.

some lords and faction will have a easier time to destroy morale. Like Morathi for example comes with a debuff to leadership with her skills and with a spell.

Vigor has an impact on leadership. The more tired they are the more likely they will break.

Terror/fear is nice to have. Fear is often useless against high tier troops since a lot of them are immune.

Im not 100% on this but i think if they lose models they tend to break faster, take that with a grain of salt i would need to double check that to be sure.

if you play on easy you should see the enemy rout once in a while.


I play vh/vh and a lot of the time cavalry that charge at me break before reaching my line, so if it doesn't happens on easy it isn't normal and like everyone else said mods might be the reason.


overhauls like SFO do change stuff like that.

being badly damaged (losing models) is a leadership penalty, yeah.
others include being attacked in the flank or rear, taking missile fire, taking artillery fire...
if you mouse over the leadership stat on the unit card it tells you the various modifiers affecting the unit (but not, for some reason, a breakdown of how much leadership each modifier penalizes).
anyway, units will almost never rout from only one effect, it's going to be a combination of modifiers that gets their leadership to zero... but a bunch of those are common from just fighting. OP mentioned Greenskins, their leadership is pretty low and individual units will usually rout and come back several times in a battle. Them sticking around to fight until almost dead is very strange.

[Captain Baldy]

Originally posted by Amereth:

Units don't break because of cavalry charge unless their leadership is low.

Them losing health isn't the only factor for routing.

everything is related to leadership.

If they get surrounded they will have penalties to their leadership.

some lords and faction will have a easier time to destroy morale. Like Morathi for example comes with a debuff to leadership with her skills and with a spell.

Vigor has an impact on leadership. The more tired they are the more likely they will break.

Terror/fear is nice to have. Fear is often useless against high tier troops since a lot of them are immune.

Im not 100% on this but i think if they lose models they tend to break faster, take that with a grain of salt i would need to double check that to be sure.

if you play on easy you should see the enemy rout once in a while.


I play vh/vh and a lot of the time cavalry that charge at me break before reaching my line, so if it doesn't happens on easy it isn't normal and like everyone else said mods might be the reason.


overhauls like SFO do change stuff like that.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2979052252

[finn12koch]

Originally posted by Amereth:

Units don't break because of cavalry charge unless their leadership is low.

Them losing health isn't the only factor for routing.

everything is related to leadership.

If they get surrounded they will have penalties to their leadership.

some lords and faction will have a easier time to destroy morale. Like Morathi for example comes with a debuff to leadership with her skills and with a spell.

Vigor has an impact on leadership. The more tired they are the more likely they will break.

Terror/fear is nice to have. Fear is often useless against high tier troops since a lot of them are immune.

Im not 100% on this but i think if they lose models they tend to break faster, take that with a grain of salt i would need to double check that to be sure.

if you play on easy you should see the enemy rout once in a while.


I play vh/vh and a lot of the time cavalry that charge at me break before reaching my line, so if it doesn't happens on easy it isn't normal and like everyone else said mods might be the reason.


overhauls like SFO do change stuff like that.

im playing with radious mod so maybe thats the reason but its still weird

[Zeek]

Originally posted by finn12koch:

im playing with radious mod

Step 1 of verifying an issue is to deactivate mods, especially huge ones like Radious....

[DarkStar]

It isn't just a radious sfo or zny overhaul really problem, its vanilla as well. All the buffs units get to leadership in a campaign setting between veterancy, tech, lord red skill trees, defeating a faction a certain amount of times to get that trait, some specific LL buffing that unit, items, ancillaries, banners, and LL defeat traits some anyway, the morale can sky rocket.

This allows most units to achieve the high morale that allows them to stay in combat for longer to their detriment and also coming back again and more then likely being killed off.

And i haven't seen the affects of fear and terror and rear charges and low health negating this so the majority of units effectively fight to the death, and if not they return from a routed state to ultimately come back to die. This is a much bigger problem mid to late game, and is quite annoying.

[Captain Baldy]

Originally posted by Zeek:

Originally posted by finn12koch:

im playing with radious mod

Step 1 of verifying an issue is to deactivate mods, especially huge ones like Radious....

I know also that mixer and radius don't go well together, and there is a mixer submod that also causes crash when using mixer instead of radius. It could be useful to know.

[MrSoul]

? they do regularly for me like they've always done in these games, I play H/H.
I use mods, but nothing that alters vanilla stats, or battles, cos I dont mind vanilla balance tbh.

[Amereth]

Originally posted by BlackJack:

It isn't just a radious sfo or zny overhaul really problem, its vanilla as well. All the buffs units get to leadership in a campaign setting between veterancy, tech, lord red skill trees, defeating a faction a certain amount of times to get that trait, some specific LL buffing that unit, items, ancillaries, banners, and LL defeat traits some anyway, the morale can sky rocket.

This allows most units to achieve the high morale that allows them to stay in combat for longer to their detriment and also coming back again and more then likely being killed off.

And i haven't seen the affects of fear and terror and rear charges and low health negating this so the majority of units effectively fight to the death, and if not they return from a routed state to ultimately come back to die. This is a much bigger problem mid to late game, and is quite annoying.

Yeah late game it can be harder because of the reasons you mentioned but technically your units do more damage and you have more tools to debuff the enemy.

I do remember in the past that lowering leadership was easy to the point that some faction could rout the enemy right at the start of the fight.

Of course it doesn't work anymore.

probably one of the reason they nerfed the leadership of some units a few patches after the release of wh3. We can probably expect more nerf, maybe ?