Poor Vampire Counts (No DLC)

[RadCon One]

They were the only Race to not receive DLC in TWWH2, and from the looks of it they won't be receiving any updates or DLC this year either according to the new release schedule, while races that did receive DLC will be getting them again.

It just feels so weird. In TWWH1 they were clearly a development team favorite, only to suddenly become the red-headed step-child in TWWH2 and to continue it in TWWH3. I'm hoping the delay is just because the DLC/update they are going to get is just that amazing... but that may just be copium.

[Defmonkey]

Just be patient, they will get their turn.

Edit: Infact the Vampire counts got a free overhaul in the beginning of Warhammer 2 life cycle. To the point point some people complained too much focus on undead factions with Tomb Kings & Vampire Coast.

[RadCon One]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Just be patient, they will get their turn.

Edit: Infact the Vampire counts got a free overhaul in the beginning of Warhammer 2 life cycle. To the point point some people complained too much focus on undead factions with Tomb Kings & Vampire Coast.

A partial rework yes, but not a DLC, and said rework was absolutely minor compared to what many others got. They literally didn't even make it into the game unless you played mortal empires. Tomb Kings and the Vampire Coast are completely separate factions too, they aren't interchangeable just by virtue of sharing the nature of being undead.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by RadCon One:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Just be patient, they will get their turn.

Edit: Infact the Vampire counts got a free overhaul in the beginning of Warhammer 2 life cycle. To the point point some people complained too much focus on undead factions with Tomb Kings & Vampire Coast.

A partial rework yes, but not a DLC, and said rework was absolutely minor compared to what many others got. They literally didn't even make it into the game unless you played mortal empires.

To be fair though they were one of the first factions to receive a rework so the general pattern had not been fully established with the later factions as CA started to put more and more into each DLC. Just imagine the riot if they did such a simple rework now.

No matter though, they will definitely get revisited being that one one the franchises biggest bads is yet to show up. Plus there is still some gas left in the tank to explore the various bloodlines... and possibly a couple of new ones previously referenced in the lore to the east.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by RadCon One:

Tomb Kings and the Vampire Coast are completely separate factions too, they aren't interchangeable just by virtue of sharing the nature of being undead.

Yes true, but doesn't stop people complaining about its theme as many of the units have variants or similarities across the factions. This is the same situation we have now with people complaining about Chaos factions. And some of these chaos factions needed addressing far more than the undead did. Chaos warriors got theirs, Norsca needs looking at, and the monogods themselves are a mixed bag by many peoples accounts (Though in my opinion the monogods are somewhat OK but could do with some tweaks)

[Hex]

They don't really *need* anything, not the same way as other factions who are severely lacking. Empire and Dawi are still missing their strongest units, which is why they feel so lackluster. Like Beastmen before Minotaurs and stuff.

[Dugaul]

its being cathay and kisev since the start so ya i can see some people being disappointed a bit, but still the updates mentions changes to other systems? how knows maybe some other goodies in the coming updates.

[zefyris]

VCounts was also for a good while the race with the most LL available with 5. They're still at 5 yes, and it's no longer the most (we've got 8-7-6-6-6-5-5-5 by now so it's 6th tied with dwarves and greenskins), plus they only have 4 starting position, so they've been sliding down overtime, obviously.
But guess what? Empire is still having less than them with 4 LL available, despite having a DLC in wh2; and while they got a rework just like VCounts in WH2, their rework no longer properly work in wh3 and is in urgent need of a second pass, way more than VCounts.
Dwarves are at 5 just like VCounts now, but their mechanics are more barebone than VCounts and they're struggling way more in WH3 as well, both in MP and in campaign.

As for the new races, Cathay only has 2 LLs, Kislev has 3, Nurgle and Tzeentch 1. MEaning, literally, ALL 6 RACES CONFIRMED TO RECEIVE SOMETHING IN THE NEXT 2 PATCHES are more in need than VCounts. 5 out of those 6 have less than VCounts and the last one, who arguably has a bit more than VCounts, is in a more urgent need of a pass than VCounts.

You WILL get VCounts content down the line. But they're nowhere near as much of a priority as you think they are.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Dugaul:

its being cathay and kisev since the start so ya i can see some people being disappointed a bit, but still the updates mentions changes to other systems? how knows maybe some other goodies in the coming updates.

Yeah, they will definitely get some love for sure. Just need to be patient.

In so far as Kislev and Cathay i have differing feelings about. Yes, kislev could do with some of its side lore, i just hope they don't over bloat them as Kislev is pretty small as it is, Maybe Mother Ochenka as a Legendary Hero and Golden Knight as a lord (Edit: Sounds like the golden knight should be a legendary hero as well from further reading so no idea if Kislev even needs another legendary Lord) or something plus a few units and that should be all they need. I do think the kislev faction mechanics need a pass such as the devotion / faction political race mechanic to make it fit properly in to the Immortal Empires campaign.

Cathay on the other hand has much more space to expand and to explore. So i hope this gets developed a lot more. Still 3 known dragons, Monkey King, Jade Vampires and so on... A lot more could be done here. Plus their heroes and other standard lords are just very limp.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by zefyris:

VCounts was also for a good while the race with the most LL available with 5. They're still at 5 yes, and it's no longer the most (we've got 8-7-6-6-6-5-5-5 by now so it's 6th tied with dwarves and greenskins), plus they only have 4 starting position, so they've been sliding down overtime, obviously.
But guess what? Empire is still having less than them with 4 LL available, despite having a DLC in wh2; and while they got a rework just like VCounts in WH2, their rework no longer properly work in wh3 and is in urgent need of a second pass, way more than VCounts.
Dwarves are at 5 just like VCounts now, but their mechanics are more barebone than VCounts and they're struggling way more in WH3 as well, both in MP and in campaign.

As for the new races, Cathay only has 2 LLs, Kislev has 3, Nurgle and Tzeentch 1. MEaning, literally, ALL 6 RACES CONFIRMED TO RECEIVE SOMETHING IN THE NEXT 2 PATCHES are more in need than VCounts. 5 out of those 6 have less than VCounts and the last one, who arguably has a bit more than VCounts, is in a more urgent need of a pass than VCounts.

You WILL get VCounts content down the line. But they're nowhere near as much of a priority as you think they are.

While i agree with the view of this post, the one item i do not agree with is with the infatuation of the number of lords. I think they should just keep to the franchises roots and get in all the major players and sprinkle in few others.

The factions are not balanced and equal in any way. Some have more, some have less. The issue is that too many people get hung up on that there must be 4 lords or whatever, rather than the content of the faction itself.

[RadCon One]

Originally posted by zefyris:

VCounts was also for a good while the race with the most LL available with 5. They're still at 5 yes, and it's no longer the most (we've got 8-7-6-6-6-5-5-5 by now so it's 6th tied with dwarves and greenskins), plus they only have 4 starting position, so they've been sliding down overtime, obviously.
But guess what? Empire is still having less than them with 4 LL available, despite having a DLC in wh2; and while they got a rework just like VCounts in WH2, their rework no longer properly work in wh3 and is in urgent need of a second pass, way more than VCounts.
Dwarves are at 5 just like VCounts now, but their mechanics are more barebone than VCounts and they're struggling way more in WH3 as well, both in MP and in campaign.

As for the new races, Cathay only has 2 LLs, Kislev has 3, Nurgle and Tzeentch 1. MEaning, literally, ALL 6 RACES CONFIRMED TO RECEIVE SOMETHING IN THE NEXT 2 PATCHES are more in need than VCounts. 5 out of those 6 have less than VCounts and the last one, who arguably has a bit more than VCounts, is in a more urgent need of a pass than VCounts.

You WILL get VCounts content down the line. But they're nowhere near as much of a priority as you think they are.

The Empire and the Dwarves are better off than the Vampire Counts right now updates-wise. The Vampire Counts basically just got special generic lords as their entire update. The Dwarves gained a crafting system that allows for very specific customization of lords and heroes and vastly improved rune-smithing while the Empire gained a whole new system with unique RoR-esque units to accompany it. The Empire having 1 lord less doesn't put them behind the VC mechanics-wise.

The New factions have less lords, yes, but they also have actual unique mechanics to them that make them feel different from other factions. The biggest thing the VC have going for them is raise dead... which the other undead factions also have leaving them with said special generic lords that get random traits that are at the whims of RNGsus and have had their most useful traits nerfed while their useless ones stayed in. In many ways they are a less interesting version of the Vampirates who can also raise dead and get special generic lords.

The devs can do whatever they want in whatever order they want, ultimately I was just griping, but lets not gaslight people into thinking that the schedule here is based on how desperately a faction needs its rework / DLC. That is just working backwards with you taking the conclusion and thinking up theories for as to why it was done that way.

[Scar]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/404013/Total_War_WARHAMMER__The_Grim_and_the_Grave/ Pretty sure this was the dlc for them? and they had a rework...

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Scar:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/404013/Total_War_WARHAMMER__The_Grim_and_the_Grave/ Pretty sure this was the dlc for them? and they had a rework...

Thats Warhammer 1 Though

[Scar]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Originally posted by Scar:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/404013/Total_War_WARHAMMER__The_Grim_and_the_Grave/ Pretty sure this was the dlc for them? and they had a rework...

Thats Warhammer 1 Though

I guess but still a DLC for them that got carried over, I'm not a huge warhammer lore person so idk what else they could add as a dlc

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Scar:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Thats Warhammer 1 Though

I guess but still a DLC for them that got carried over, I'm not a huge warhammer lore person so idk what else they could add as a dlc

Well you have one of Warhammers biggest bad's named "Nagash - Lord of the Undead" Responsible for the Vampires and Tomb Kings (Settra hates his guts).

So he for sure will be rocking up at some point.

Then you have the various vampire bloodlines that could be expanded upon. Lahmian line "Neferata", Strigois, Nechrach Brotherhood, Blood Dragons, The Von Carsteins (Could get Conrad as a hero perhaps..), Jade Blooded in cathay and supposedly another line in Nippon but sketchy there

[zefyris]

Originally posted by RadCon One:

Originally posted by zefyris:

VCounts was also for a good while the race with the most LL available with 5. They're still at 5 yes, and it's no longer the most (we've got 8-7-6-6-6-5-5-5 by now so it's 6th tied with dwarves and greenskins), plus they only have 4 starting position, so they've been sliding down overtime, obviously.
But guess what? Empire is still having less than them with 4 LL available, despite having a DLC in wh2; and while they got a rework just like VCounts in WH2, their rework no longer properly work in wh3 and is in urgent need of a second pass, way more than VCounts.
Dwarves are at 5 just like VCounts now, but their mechanics are more barebone than VCounts and they're struggling way more in WH3 as well, both in MP and in campaign.

As for the new races, Cathay only has 2 LLs, Kislev has 3, Nurgle and Tzeentch 1. MEaning, literally, ALL 6 RACES CONFIRMED TO RECEIVE SOMETHING IN THE NEXT 2 PATCHES are more in need than VCounts. 5 out of those 6 have less than VCounts and the last one, who arguably has a bit more than VCounts, is in a more urgent need of a pass than VCounts.

You WILL get VCounts content down the line. But they're nowhere near as much of a priority as you think they are.

The Empire and the Dwarves are better off than the Vampire Counts right now updates-wise. The Vampire Counts basically just got special generic lords as their entire update. The Dwarves gained a crafting system that allows for very specific customization of lords and heroes and vastly improved rune-smithing while the Empire gained a whole new system with unique RoR-esque units to accompany it. The Empire having 1 lord less doesn't put them behind the VC mechanics-wise.

The New factions have less lords, yes, but they also have actual unique mechanics to them that make them feel different from other factions. The biggest thing the VC have going for them is raise dead... which the other undead factions also have leaving them with said special generic lords that get random traits that are at the whims of RNGsus and have had their most useful traits nerfed while their useless ones stayed in. In many ways they are a less interesting version of the Vampirates who can also raise dead and get special generic lords.

The devs can do whatever they want in whatever order they want, ultimately I was just griping, but lets not gaslight people into thinking that the schedule here is based on how desperately a faction needs its rework / DLC. That is just working backwards with you taking the conclusion and thinking up theories for as to why it was done that way.

Blood kiss system isn't in any way or form a mechanic inferior to the dwarven forge. Also those special lords are some of the most interesting non LL lords in the game. The Empire mechanic doesn't even properly work right now because it was tailored for a way less aggressive surrounding than what they have in wh3