Eldred's Guard

[Oedipus's Stepdad]

I don't understand this unit, for what does it have to show for it's absurdly high price? It's slightly more armored than the average spearmen with shields, but all the other stats are EXACTLY the same. And it costs 200 per turn, are there any justification for fielding it? I'm trying to build armies with as much EC units as I can and this one just...doesn't fit into any build.

[DarkFenix]

More armour, expert charge defence, encourage. Did you even look? But no, it's not going to fit into any decent build, powered up or not it's still just spearmen. Decent enough to shove into a little garrison army though, it'll hold a street and shore up morale of the crappy garrison units.

[Kel'Thuzad]

Like Fenix said, expert charge defence.
They're not worth the upkeep, when Halberdiers can get exp charge defence from a technology.
Unless maybe you're righting Wood Elves or something, and really want your front line to have armour and shields.

[Scar Glamour]

Eldred's Guard is the best infantry unit for holding the front line for the Empire. They have the highest melee defense (on par with spears and halberds), but +40 armor, silver shields, and universal charge defense to boot. Considering all Empire front-line units are trash when trading, Eldred's Guard will give a lot more value for their money than halberds or greatswords because they give your arty and ranged more time to do real damage to the enemy.

[Oedipus's Stepdad]

Originally posted by Scar Glamour:

Eldred's Guard is the best infantry unit for holding the front line for the Empire. They have the highest melee defense (on par with spears and halberds), but +40 armor, silver shields, and universal charge defense to boot. Considering all Empire front-line units are trash when trading, Eldred's Guard will give a lot more value for their money than halberds or greatswords because they give your arty and ranged more time to do real damage to the enemy.

They can only hold the line well against low-tier infantry, anything bigger will still kill them fast because of their low damage

[stun]

they ... have a zero turn recruit time?
That's kind of significant?

As others have said, they're a decent tarpit (very good by empire standards). The unbreakables are better though.

Originally posted by Oedipus's Stepdad:

They can only hold the line well against low-tier infantry, anything bigger will still kill them fast because of their low damage

How can their low damage
cause them to die?
Faster?
What?

You don't deal damage with lineholder melee troops. You hold a line and shoot enemies in the sides or over the top with artillery and missile units which outdps buffed T5 melee infantry about four times over from the start of the game.
They can hold SEMs down for long enough that guns will make short work of them and you'll lose less than a third of the unit. You're going to take more damage from mortar friendly fires than from the chosen you're holding down.
Combined arms isn't that great in WH3, but considering they're an instant-recruit unit that's going to be frontlining in a steaming hodgepodge, they do this job of holding down the black orcs or whatever while your state troop or garrison guns and bows shoot them very well.

[Who trains thy hands for war?]

i always hated empire's line units, precisely because i need them to hold when i fight the wood elves

i like fighting wood elves, all types of elves; i'm going to fight them with Cathay

[Kel'Thuzad]

Originally posted by Oedipus's Stepdad:

Originally posted by Scar Glamour:

Eldred's Guard is the best infantry unit for holding the front line for the Empire. They have the highest melee defense (on par with spears and halberds), but +40 armor, silver shields, and universal charge defense to boot. Considering all Empire front-line units are trash when trading, Eldred's Guard will give a lot more value for their money than halberds or greatswords because they give your arty and ranged more time to do real damage to the enemy.

They can only hold the line well against low-tier infantry, anything bigger will still kill them fast because of their low damage

More-so because high tier infantry will likely have AP damage that negates Eldred's armour advantage.
Halberdiers do almost as good a job of holding the line, while also dishing out AP damage and costing ~100 less upkeep.

Originally posted by stun:

they ... have a zero turn recruit time?
That's kind of significant?

As others have said, they're a decent tarpit (very good by empire standards). The unbreakables are better though.

Originally posted by Oedipus's Stepdad:

They can only hold the line well against low-tier infantry, anything bigger will still kill them fast because of their low damage

How can their low damage
cause them to die?
Faster?
What?

You don't deal damage with lineholder melee troops. You hold a line and shoot enemies in the sides or over the top with artillery and missile units which outdps buffed T5 melee infantry about four times over from the start of the game.
They can hold SEMs down for long enough that guns will make short work of them and you'll lose less than a third of the unit. You're going to take more damage from mortar friendly fires than from the chosen you're holding down.
Combined arms isn't that great in WH3, but considering they're an instant-recruit unit that's going to be frontlining in a steaming hodgepodge, they do this job of holding down the black orcs or whatever while your state troop or garrison guns and bows shoot them very well.

Maybe, but it sure doesn't hurt if your lineholder melee are dishing out some decent damage. It's not uncommon for my Halberds to rack up 80ish kills in a long fight against Chaos.

[Mky]

Originally posted by Oedipus's Stepdad:

I don't understand this unit, for what does it have to show for it's absurdly high price? It's slightly more armored than the average spearmen with shields, but all the other stats are EXACTLY the same. And it costs 200 per turn, are there any justification for fielding it? I'm trying to build armies with as much EC units as I can and this one just...doesn't fit into any build.

It does its job at holding the line while Gelt's arty is destroying enemies.
Probably one of the best frontline holders you can have imo as they have large shield + armour (+gelt's buff) + anti charge + high melee def

Going 2 eldred's guard 2 halberds 3 great swords and rest being handguns / arty / heroes is a decent composition that can carry you to the late game. All you'll have to do is replacing your arty as soon as you can unlock better ones.

The "encourage nearby units" can be quite useless as you'll most likely have a priest having increased radius + increased moral for unit in the radius. But it's always good to have to make sure you cover all flanks with encouraging bonus anyway and letting your priest able to break the line from time to time and be more offensive

[Kel'Thuzad]

Originally posted by Theo:

Originally posted by Oedipus's Stepdad:

I don't understand this unit, for what does it have to show for it's absurdly high price? It's slightly more armored than the average spearmen with shields, but all the other stats are EXACTLY the same. And it costs 200 per turn, are there any justification for fielding it? I'm trying to build armies with as much EC units as I can and this one just...doesn't fit into any build.

It does its job at holding the line while Gelt's arty is destroying enemies.
Probably one of the best frontline holders you can have imo as they have large shield + armour (+gelt's buff) + anti charge.

Going 2 eldred's guard 2 halbers 3 great swords and rest being handguns / arty / heroes is a decent composition that can carry you to the late game. All you'll have to do is replacing your arty as soon as you can unlock better ones.

Pretty much this. But I go 2 EG and 5 Halberds. EG go on each flank, since a lot of cav rely on charge bonus and don't have AP damage.

I'll sometimes go Greatswords with Franz, due to his extra buffs.

[Garatgh Deloi]

They have better shields, more armor, expert charge defence rather then charge defence against large, encourage (meaning they act like a lord and buff the leadership of nearby troops, assuming you don't have a lord nearby, if you do the largest bonus is applied, they don't stack).

I mean sure, late game they won't do much. But early game they are a much improved version of the spearmen.

[leyasu888]

Empire has pretty junk front line infantry so Eldred's Guard have some use if you are not using allied frontline to tank for you

[Oedipus's Stepdad]

Originally posted by stun:

they ... have a zero turn recruit time?
That's kind of significant?

As others have said, they're a decent tarpit (very good by empire standards). The unbreakables are better though.

Originally posted by Oedipus's Stepdad:

They can only hold the line well against low-tier infantry, anything bigger will still kill them fast because of their low damage

How can their low damage
cause them to die?
Faster?
What?

You don't deal damage with lineholder melee troops. You hold a line and shoot enemies in the sides or over the top with artillery and missile units which outdps buffed T5 melee infantry about four times over from the start of the game.
They can hold SEMs down for long enough that guns will make short work of them and you'll lose less than a third of the unit. You're going to take more damage from mortar friendly fires than from the chosen you're holding down.
Combined arms isn't that great in WH3, but considering they're an instant-recruit unit that's going to be frontlining in a steaming hodgepodge, they do this job of holding down the black orcs or whatever while your state troop or garrison guns and bows shoot them very well.

well if they're not killing their enemies fast their enemies will be killing them pretty fast

[Enelith]

They're not suppose to kill enemies, they're suppose to hold the line. That's their job. Killing is for other.
That's called knowing the roles and purpose of units.

[Oedipus's Stepdad]

Originally posted by Enelith:

They're not suppose to kill enemies, they're suppose to hold the line. That's their job. Killing is for other.
That's called knowing the roles and purpose of units.

Except this is Warhammer 3, not Total War Rome 2, units can't just "hold the line" without taking absurd losses, especially if you add spells and monsters into the equation. And take the halberdier for example, it holds the line by killing the enemy.

[Enelith]

Originally posted by Oedipus's Stepdad:

Except this is Warhammer 3, not Total War Rome 2, units can't just "hold the line" without taking absurd losses, especially if you add spells and monsters into the equation.

And ? Why wouldn't it be possible ? According to you logic, what's the point of Skavenslaves then ?
Why do you feel things should be "fair" in the warhammer world ?
It's a Total War game first, therefore, each unit has a purpose or role in which they shine, and other aspect in which they're not "optimal".