How does everyone feel about unit cap mechanics?

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

I have been playing turox lately in waiting for chaos dwarfs because of the unit cap situation with them, with beastmen I find that a REALLY enjoy the unit cap mechanic for them but at the same time like with tomb kings these are free units.

To my understanding chaos dwarf units who have caps still have upkeep on them, will this make the whole situation more annoying? or will it just make it make it more important to tactfully spend your upgrade currency? (for example as taurox I feel I should always spam minotaurs at least in his own army)

At the same time I honestly feel like the unit caps should be implemented for every race. Dwarfs for example in game mention a lot that Ironbreakers very rarely leave their own Karaks because they are so important for keeping the tunnels under them safe, or how in lore the empire only has like 9 working steam tanks left in the world.

I have tried the tabletop caps mod which is a good start but its a bit too ridged in my opinion, for example when I tried a greasus campaign with it I was only able to field a few iron guts and that locked me out of most tier 2 units, thing is I felt this was annoying because their supposed to be greasus's star unit with reduced upkeep and buffs he should be able to field more of them compared to others.

TLDR would it be better if all factions had unit cap limits on higher tier units?

[MrSoul]

If done properly, and with mind to things like your notes on tabletop limit mod(and having granular enough work done that this is reflected individual across a culture for each LL where makes sense), sure why not.

I think a lot of people would not like it however, but at same time it does add some depth to the gameplay beyond just "mo' money mo' troops". Dark Elves for example, black guard should be like hero limits could say in theory. Then only recruit beyond starting cap as build more of the one unique building chain for them.

Executioners versus witch elves another obvious one too, no limit on witch elves but executioners should be limited based on amount of infrastructure actually present in the game world to train and recruit them in the first place.

Would certainly curtail doom stacking in game, which is why I think this would cause a massive schism in the community lol

[Black Hammer]

Unit caps are a great idea, and the game should have had a host of mechanics built around them from the ground up.

[pascal.difolco]

I don't like the tabletop like caps, as it usually give pretty stupid results : so only say 2 T5 units in a an army, but I can have 10 armies, so what's the point ?
Caps on total available units of a given type make more sense, and what I prefer is the system used for heroes, very limited capacity that increase for each building or upgrade
To prevent power creep, recruitment times for hi tier units could be slower too, and reduced by nr of related buildings as well

[BIG E.]

Originally posted by Mr.Soul:

Would certainly curtail doom stacking in game, which is why I think this would cause a massive schism in the community lol

Factions WITH unit caps can still build doomstacks fairly easily.

You cannot take away doomstacking unless you put limits to how many of the same unit you can recruit in one army, which if CA did something like that it would break whole lot of other things and belive me you wouldn't like how that game plays.

Also CA already removed like 50% of AI cheats in WH3 so doomstacking doesn't really do much anymore. AI never fields enough armies to warrant doomstacking like it did in WH2.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by Mr.Soul:

If done properly, and with mind to things like your notes on tabletop limit mod(and having granular enough work done that this is reflected individual across a culture for each LL where makes sense), sure why not.

I think a lot of people would not like it however, but at same time it does add some depth to the gameplay beyond just "mo' money mo' troops". Dark Elves for example, black guard should be like hero limits could say in theory. Then only recruit beyond starting cap as build more of the one unique building chain for them.

Executioners versus witch elves another obvious one too, no limit on witch elves but executioners should be limited based on amount of infrastructure actually present in the game world to train and recruit them in the first place.

Would certainly curtail doom stacking in game, which is why I think this would cause a massive schism in the community lol

Then just have it as a toggle, it doesn't have to always have unit capped or not. I just dislike how it does become a doomstack nightmare late game even with AI.

[Testikles]

I play with unit cap mods since a long time now, much more enjoyable to me. Deciding what to put where and how to properly compose is just too much fun. With the right combination of mods you can get a good and flexible cap system already. But I understand when people are against it. Ideally, it would be a different game mode and you could decide if you want caps or "pure" sandbox.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2789896406

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798804755

Etc.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by BIG E.:

Originally posted by Mr.Soul:

Would certainly curtail doom stacking in game, which is why I think this would cause a massive schism in the community lol

Factions WITH unit caps can still build doomstacks fairly easily.

You cannot take away doomstacking unless you put limits to how many of the same unit you can recruit in one army, which if CA did something like that it would break whole lot of other things and belive me you wouldn't like how that game plays.

Also CA already removed like 50% of AI cheats in WH3 so doomstacking doesn't really do much anymore. AI never fields enough armies to warrant doomstacking like it did in WH2.

So your saying a dwarf army with 8 units or more of ironbreakers is a necessity for gameplay? I feel like especially powerful and lorewise rare units like these should be hard to come by. For example I feel a way to implement this mechanic to dwarfs is to follow the dwarf stronghold idea thats been passed around and increase the amount of ironbreakers you can recruit depending on how many/what strongholds you control.

[MrSoul]

Originally posted by BIG E.:

Originally posted by Mr.Soul:

Would certainly curtail doom stacking in game, which is why I think this would cause a massive schism in the community lol

Factions WITH unit caps can still build doomstacks fairly easily.

You cannot take away doomstacking unless you put limits to how many of the same unit you can recruit in one army, which if CA did something like that it would break whole lot of other things and belive me you wouldn't like how that game plays.

Also CA already removed like 50% of AI cheats in WH3 so doomstacking doesn't really do much anymore. AI never fields enough armies to warrant doomstacking like it did in WH2.

I know how it plays, I've tried out my own mods on that idea. Unit caps would prevent doom stacking without limiting per army too, assuming the caps are very low like literally 4 hydras for entire campaign. This is currently easiest way to do it too by editing main units table. Per army, don't even know where you'd start tbh.

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by Mr.Soul:

If done properly, and with mind to things like your notes on tabletop limit mod(and having granular enough work done that this is reflected individual across a culture for each LL where makes sense), sure why not.

I think a lot of people would not like it however, but at same time it does add some depth to the gameplay beyond just "mo' money mo' troops". Dark Elves for example, black guard should be like hero limits could say in theory. Then only recruit beyond starting cap as build more of the one unique building chain for them.

Executioners versus witch elves another obvious one too, no limit on witch elves but executioners should be limited based on amount of infrastructure actually present in the game world to train and recruit them in the first place.

Would certainly curtail doom stacking in game, which is why I think this would cause a massive schism in the community lol

Then just have it as a toggle, it doesn't have to always have unit capped or not. I just dislike how it does become a doomstack nightmare late game even with AI.

Ya be easy enough to have I'd assume. Either way just a joke at expense of these forums lol

[kekkuli]

I feel like they could be an option. Sometimes i feel like playing with unit cap and sometimes not.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by Rindenberg:

I play with unit cap mods since a long time now, much more enjoyable to me. Deciding what to put where and how to properly compose is just too much fun. With the right combination of mods you can get a good and flexible cap system already. But I understand when people are against it. Ideally, it would be a different game mode and you could decide if you want caps or "pure" sandbox.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2789896406

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798804755

Etc.

Well that submod wasn't around last time I looked, might have to give it a try.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by kekkuli:

I feel like they could be an option. Sometimes i feel like playing with unit cap and sometimes not.

Yeah it doesn't have to always be one or the other, just have the unit cap mode as "realism" or "lore friendly" or something.

[Testikles]

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by Rindenberg:

I play with unit cap mods since a long time now, much more enjoyable to me. Deciding what to put where and how to properly compose is just too much fun. With the right combination of mods you can get a good and flexible cap system already. But I understand when people are against it. Ideally, it would be a different game mode and you could decide if you want caps or "pure" sandbox.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2789896406

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798804755

Etc.

Well that submod wasn't around last time I looked, might have to give it a try.

Make sure to check out the list of submods which is linked on the mod page, lots of ways to customize the caps :- )

[Android Poetry]

Unit caps are great, make it more challenging, game is just too easy otherwise and doomstacks are usually the optimal way of playing, even if they are less fun

[phlux]

I play mostly with SFO which adds unit caps for quite alot of powerful units for every race.
At first i had to get used to it but it really makes seeing these units more special and prevents you or the AI from just spamming these units. And there is also a way to increase those caps most of the time.
So at first my Dawi cannon is special and precious because i can only have one of them at a time where it represents the peak of my war technology but with time the caps rise and they become more common on the battlefield.
I think that gives it alot more flavor and also makes the move from one technology to the next smoother.
All my old artillery doesn't get useless anymore just because i can build cannons now.

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by phlux:

I play mostly with SFO which adds unit caps for quite alot of powerful units for every race.
At first i had to get used to it but it really makes seeing these units more special and prevents you or the AI from just spamming these units. And there is also a way to increase those caps most of the time.
So at first my Dawi cannon is special and precious because i can only have one of them at a time where it represents the peak of my war technology but with time the caps rise and they become more common on the battlefield.
I think that gives it alot more flavor and also makes the move from one technology to the next smoother.
All my old artillery doesn't get useless anymore just because i can build cannons now.

Yes exactly, its like in my taurox campaign right now I have two other armies that are much weaker but serve a very good role of helping sweep a blood ground region quickly AND all units that I don't really want in taurox's army go to them, IE while a giant still sucks its good to shove into my weaker army or me being a filthy pleb who hates microing chairots shoves them into the second army.