Chaos Dwarfs are too OP

[Mouse]

I just bought the DLC to see what all the fuss was about and they feel way too strong. I really hate how every DLC is more OP than the next, because all it does is make everything else feel underwhelming and need updating. It is a vicious cycle.

It makes little sense for such a small populated faction to be so strong. Even in the lore they are a minor power right? Some factions should be weak. That is part of the fun and diversity of the game.

Having for example a lord who is a spell caster, can run faster than most cavalry, is 'small unit size' and yet has more mass than Kholek Suneater.. It's just ridiculous. What is that dam suit made out of? He's also better in melee than most melee lords too of course.

[Mouse]

That's a nice essay but couldn't care less about PVP. But as a side note, I was earning plenty of money as CDs, maybe you did not build your settlements optimally. Sometimes the straight up '200 gold' per turn or whatever building is the best. Armaments is more for mid-late game anyway.

[Red-_-Monkey]

Every DLC is OP.
-Empowers the player
-Player does not regret purchase
-CA nerfs faction and are praised for listening to players.
-Every DLC ever

[Fauxsteel]

When Tretch was finally given better campaign mechanics and moved away from Delf powerstruggle in wh2 (or at least given the ability to get away from it), Rictus became my favourite Skaven faction. I'll never understand clowns who play strategy games in search for power fantasy.

[Yourbestfiend]

idk just played a campaign as Nakai and I absolutely dog walked through the chorfs like it was nothing, I mean I literally just killed them to carve a path to Sylvania

[Verstummeln]

They're a forgeworld faction what did you expect? Next.

[Vinnie DAngelo]

Damn! this debate is still going?

[libērtaŞ]

If you don't like them cause they're too OP, don't play them.
Everyone else likes playing them.
And any faction in the hands of the player can beat them.

[Wolf]

Of COURSE they had to make them stronger...it's called DLC power creep. Release the game, then release DLC with stronger lords so people really, really want to play them. Really, really crappy thing to do as a company.

[Elitewrecker PT]

You have people saying they're OP and people saying they suck... who's right?!

[Professor H. Farnsworth]

Escrito originalmente por Elitewrecker PT:

You have people saying they're OP and people saying they suck... who's right?!

They don't suck, but they're certainly not OP.

I can field 4 mixed armies consisting of elite troops on turn 100.
- 4 Ironsworn, 2 Blunderbusses, 6 Fireglaives, 2 Bull Centaurs & 2 Iron Daemon Dreadquakes in each.

I can't actually increase my cap for either Ironsworn or Fireglaive more than 1 at a time now, even though I'm spitting out some 3,5k armaments - I haven't even bothered with upgrades, 'cos there's no point. I'd just be reducing my potential cap increase..

The rest of my armies consist chaff Hobgoblins which, sure do fairly well early game, but they now struggle with most armies, if it wasn't because I support them with Iron Daemon Dreadquakes they'd get horribly rekted.

That's the nature of the unit caps for ya. Powerful, but very limited units. In contrast to say.. Dark Elves that can just pump out shade stack upon shade stack or High Elves that just pumps out SoA stack upon SoA stack..
Rinse and repeat for every other race but Tomb Kings and Beastmen.

[Beje]

Escrito originalmente por Elitewrecker PT:

You have people saying they're OP and people saying they suck... who's right?!

It kinda evens out doesn't it? thus they are balanced, lol.

I personally think they're fine. Some of the units might be a bit over the top, like blunderbusses. And some are a bit underwhelming, like the k'daai destroyer. Economy, playstyle all of it takes a bit of getting used to. But if we compare them to literally any other faction except tkings and beastmen (the gentleman above me had the same thoughts, ty for the correction), chorfs are limited by unit caps. So while lizardmen for ex can keep pumping out stacks of stegadons, chorfs need to afford that with armaments. And you will reach a point where it becomes ridiculously expensive just to unlock 1 more unit so I feel that it balances out overall. Slightly better than average, but limited roster.

[Azhini]

Escrito originalmente por Beje:

Escrito originalmente por Elitewrecker PT:

You have people saying they're OP and people saying they suck... who's right?!

It kinda evens out doesn't it? thus they are balanced, lol.

Not really, it means you've got half the people who're either the 1% who can beat anything or people who enjoy being OP as the chaos dwarves (Looking at their Zhatan the Black specifically there, 1k weapon strength, flying, armoured to ♥♥♥♥, can basically 1v? anything) and the rest of the people who play the rest of the factions who can see they're overpowered.

Just compared them to Dwarves, compared to Dwarves chaos dwarves get: Cannon fodder, artillery that not only shoots but is unbreakable and fights in melee, far more powerful lords, magic (crazy OP lore of Hashut too), monstrous infantry, monstrous creatures, cavalry and flying monstrous creatures.

What do Dwarves have over chaos dwarves?

[The Sand Witch]

Escrito originalmente por Teh_Diplomat:

Objectively they're are not OP; they are strong - they are capable when you get them up and running; but, plenty of people struggle with them as well.

Limited roster cap, combined with multiple economic requirements, ensure that for every player that goes into Legendary/VH campaign and walk out 25 turns later with all their surrounding LL's dead; there are 3-4 people who restarted a campaign because mid-game they suffered insufficient raw materials to upgrade a main settlement, or not enough Armaments per turn to build adv. recruitment, but also increase the roster unit limits to counter the AIs improved units.


I mean with this update, Grimgor got even stronger with his start position and its development level being 2 from the get go.


He's got 6 stacks in some campaigns by turn 7; sure the AI might put together 5 stacks of Chorfs in the beginning from Zharr Naggrund, but its mostly chaff - you aren't up against their cream of the crop. His Trolls and Nasty Skulkers will make quick work of those Chorfs around you.

Hell, even Imrik is quite a good counter to them, once he's on his Dragon mind you.

What do you call "objectively"?

In SP, player is op and AI is an insult. As someone mentionned, "balance" is not necessarily a thing in campaign mod. Thus, OP/not OP factions is more a concern regarding campaign setup rather than actual faction balance. Between game options and mods, you can largely work around it. What's left is the AI which is widely recognised as trash, and the latest post from CA indicates that they will not work on it, probably ever.

In MP, they are deemed broken and with actual broken units. Objectively, they, alongside OK and Brets are legit broken.