Talsyn (Orion's faction) is stupidly overpowered

[Sorenzo]

Hey
So the Talsyn faction, aside from having pretty good units and easy ways to confederate with all other wood elf factions, has the most stupidly overpowered faction ability I've seen.

For EVERY war you've officially declared, ALL army upkeep is reduced by 4%.

Which means that after the first few turns, you can simply reduce your upkeep to 0%. All you gotta do is declare war with any faction you don't plan to have long-term relations with. I allied or planned to ally all the Reik, Brettonian, high elf, dark elf, wood elf, dwarf, vampire count, ogre, and lizardmen factions (all "good" to "neutral" ones), and it was still easy to find 20 ork, chaos, norsca, beastmen, pirate, and rogue factions to declare war on.

If you've discovered any faction, they will pay you outright to declare war on their enemies, even if you have never discovered those enemies.

At that point you're making 7k gold per turn with only one stronghold, once you confederate with other wood elves it'll be 20, then 30k, and that means you can spend 30k gold per turn building new armies. Attack anybody you want with 4 full doom stacks, it's all practically free xD

This ability really ought to be capped or give diminishing returns. Removing upkeep from a faction is cool but once it hits 0% there's no point in continuing the campaign because you literally can't lose even if everyone you declare war on were to attack you. Sometimes they even offer to give you money for peace, which just means 10 turns later you declare a new war xD

[Enelith]

No offense, but did you just discovered this fact about this faction ? It's been known for a long time ~ and hopefully, they'll change it a bit sooner than later.

[Sorenzo]

I did notice they tend to be strong as the AI, but I figured that's just because Orion is a strong hero on his own, since he often takes a lot of work to take down. Also I feel like wood elves are quite strong generally because of their many skirmishing units and generally strong units.

Dunno if the AI cares about upkeep anyway - but when controlled by the player it's completely broken :P

I did not figure I was the first to figure it out, but I yes, I had not realised it was this OP. I was looking forward to playing wood elves but there's no point if the challenge level is zero.

[Prisoner 76561197992841073]

In the heart of the forest, my power surges like the raging rivers, unstoppable and untamed. I am the embodiment of the Wild Hunt, the Lord of the Hunt, and none can challenge my might. The very essence of nature bends to my will, as I command the creatures of the forest and the very winds themselves.

I am an immortal, an eternal spirit of the woods. I stride through the shadows, my form a blend of grace and primal fury. My arrows strike with unerring precision, finding their mark even amidst the chaos of battle. My spear is an extension of my will, piercing through armor and flesh alike with ease.

The forest is my realm, and I am its ruler. The trees themselves whisper my name, the creatures bow in reverence as I pass. I am one with the spirits of the wild, their essence flows through my veins, granting me strength beyond mortal comprehension.

My power knows no bounds, for I am the chosen of Kurnous, the god of the hunt. My presence alone instills fear in the hearts of my enemies, for they know that they stand against a force beyond their comprehension. They are but prey in the face of my relentless pursuit.

So tremble, mortals, for I am Orion, the unstoppable force of nature. In battle, I am invincible, my strength unyielding. The forests echo with the tales of my triumphs, and my name shall be etched in history as a legend.

Beware the wrath of the Everliving Aspect of Kurnous, for it is a power that can shatter the very foundations of the world.

[Basarab Laiota]

It rewards you for going to war in a Total War game. What's the problem?
"buh muh duh its overpowered!"
its a singleplayer game

[Fendelphi]

It "can" be strong. But you need to be at war with a lot of enemies. It does not reduce recruitment costs either.
So depending on your situation, you might not be able to afford being at war with even, say, 10 factions, due to amount of armies you need to field to fight those factions.

It is more of a "win more" effect. If you are doing well, you will be doing a bit better(but at that point, it is not really needed). If you are doing poorly, a bit of extra upkeep reduction is not going to help you recruit additional units to make up for losses or creating new armies to deal with a new wave of enemies coming your way.


The obvious exploit is to be at war with factions which have no way of posing a real threat to you(most single army factions, like Rogue armies). But if you try to use it only against minor and major factions, it is not even that strong when weighed against the consequences(being at war).

A lot of factions can get 25-40% upkeep reduction and in a much easier way. Skarsnik has a 40% upkeep(and recruitment) reduction from the start, and he can also improve this to eventually reach 100%, if you want to.

[IonizedMercury]

I'm amazed CA saddled Orion with a mechanic that would be more fitting on Greenskins or Khorne. Those are the races that get a massive boner from being at war with as many people as possible after all.

Wood Elves are by far the tiniest of the major factions with the least interest of enacting wide-spread political change on the wider world and yet they saw fit to give them infinite armies.
It's like Snikch's stupid Thanos snap button, CA does things they think sound cool but have barely anything to do with the actual scope of capabilities any faction should have.

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

It "can" be strong. But you need to be at war with a lot of enemies. It does not reduce recruitment costs either.
So depending on your situation, you might not be able to afford being at war with even, say, 10 factions, due to amount of armies you need to field to fight those factions.

Completely and utterly wrong.
All that money you save from zero upkeep renders recruitment cost a total non-issue. And being at war with about 20+ enemies is easily doable as you have infinite armies and a rock-solid base that can't be easily invaded...not that the lobotomized WH3 AI would even try in the first place.

This was an utterly idiotic mechanic to implement´and even more idiotic that CA didn't think they needed to cap this reduction so you can't just have free armies.