Night Goblins Fanatics need a buff, probably in the HP dept. and their Special Ranged ability based on HP needs to be reverted

[Imposter]

They have fallen so far behind in their ability to be viable for the long game(Nothing but sieges mainly), and Night Goblin fanatics need their Night Goblin ranged weapon returned no matter their percentage of damage is, they'll get wasted before closing the line against AOE(Magic/Artillery)... And then Nope! Can't use the ability I paid for! Their "Special ranged weapon" is only a niche use, hardly a dangerous infantry killer other than the tightly 'formation-type' infantry, mainly Dwarfs and even then: It isn't that amazing and isn't effective overall, compared to magic AOE.

To top it all with their "Special Ranged ability", can't even be used in certain areas, as they disappear, or spin in place, especially in sieges. This makes them REAL useless, because now I am just relying on their raw stats that barely match mid-tier infantry, while contending with artillery, ranged infantry and infinite arrow towers.. ALL because the Special Ranged weapon wont fire as intended or functionally, with limited usage to boot(Or none!).

Fungus Flasks upgrade doesn't do much; hardly worth it, unless maybe it's on Night-Goblin Arrow infantry, but they too get shredded by arrow fire without much in the way of being very useful.

If sieges weren't so terrible I could probably overlook the issue, but with everything in the game as it sits, just makes them seem more terrible in their glaring faults.

It's REALLY bad, and I get sick of seeing these inherent buggy problems. I have reported the "Special Ranged weapon" so many times, it has been an on-going issue, yet, it doesn't get looked into... WHY???

Now, if they did receive some better changes it also should probably be nerfed in Grom's cauldron powerups. Im not looking for invincibility here... I just want more "practical" usage that makes sense, and makes sieges do-able, because Sieges and its path-finding are the effing worst. I mean they claimed to make the enemy AI better in sieges... And that's all they did with it.

[shoobers]

Are you trying to advocate for them being better for Skarsnik or the Greenskin roster as a whole?

[Imposter]

Originally posted by shoobers:

Are you trying to advocate for them being better for Skarsnik or the Greenskin roster as a whole?

Eh, Im not sure.. Probably leaning toward just an hp buff overall for JUST fanatics(not the regular night goblins)... With the reverted Special Ranged mechanic to allow them to fire off no matter the HP, their leadership isn't that great coupled with all of that, even with Grom Peak established.

Maybe if the ranged weapon wasn't so bugged on terrain and limited due to health, or a 3 time use.. I could probably vy for just Skarnsik.. At the same time: cost increase should also be in play being more expensive if the buff were received. The sieges themselves lend to how overall bad they are. I just cant really escape damage in these instances, or worried if the Ranged weapon will work at all in certain parts of a map... The siege maps are plagued with the ranged weapon not functioning in many areas of terrain like they should.

[Uugly]

1 shot and they melt Ironbreaker

[Imposter]

Originally posted by ye:

1 shot and they melt Ironbreaker

Oh yes, as I have said before, that fanatics are capable of this. But shot ranged damage isn't what im complaining about. It's their low HP, and them not being able to fire off below 25% health, and its malfunction in certain places, which is nonsense.

Likewise, Ironbreakers could easily do the same, if not better than to Fanatics, over all. One good explosive toss and night goblins will be utterly destroyed by it and most likely send Night Goblins routing. Night Goblins have to get into an ideal position for it to be effective; a great approach without too much collateral is the trick too.

But no matter the numbers at least Ironbreakers can still use their ammunition, that isn't constrained by a health % penalty, except that the less entities of IronBreakers there are = less damage potential, compared to NightGoblins who probably will not be able to, due being battered by any type of ranged fire, or only able to get 1... Then you find out it wont work on certain terrain and is rendered ineffective because of the bugged terrain.

[Belegar]

They are cheap and have massive damage potential. Their stats are perfectly fine.

[Aleera]

Stupid question. But how the heck are your goblin fanatics being so low hp that they cannot use their special ability?

You need to be below 25% hp for that. Surely you can get it of atleast once per battle. Night Goblins have stalk. They shouldn't be drawing enemy fire on the approach.

Yes, they should have a health% because unlike every other ranged special attack, for fanatics they are the ranged special attck.

[Falaris]

Night fanatics' biggest advantage is skulk, not the whirly fanatics. Not sure why you're having trouble with missiles as them, they're not supposed to be seen on the approach, and they're not supposed to approach from the front. That's what you got orcs for, they're happy being shot in the face.

Secondly, why are you complaining they can't fight ironbreakers? They cost almost three times as much, and night goblins are really weak against heavy armor. (Skarsnik's blueberries, less so, but still - get black orcs, trolls or skulkers or other units with high AP values if you want to fight dwarves, especially the 100+ armor ones.).

Thirdly, this is the tabletop warhammer description of the fanatics:

When used against the enemy, the Night Goblin Fanatic is held down by his mates until an enemy unit approach close enough for them to launch their attack. At this time, the mob hands the fanatic the end of a massive chain and chucks him in the direction of the enemy. Free at last, the deranged Night Goblin would spin crazily. After the initial shove, the Fanatic has no directional control and will recklessly plough through anything, including both enemy troops or even his own regiment. Eventually, however, a Fanatic will stumble, throttle himself with his chain or simply collapse, dying in a maniacal and convulsive fit. Extremely few have ever survived their experience as a fanatic, and through it all, those Fanatics that have met their end bears a look of self-satisfaction upon their tongue-lolling face.

They're not a dead serious unit you can expect consistent results from. If they're sometimes wrecking your own troops instead, they're working as intended. It's a feature, not a bug. (With that said, they did get improved.).

Fourthly, they are marked as expendable. That should probably be a hint that they're not your highest value heavy hitters. I get the impression you want them to be something they're not. Which is okay, there's mods for that, but it's probably going to be difficult to get traction for a general argument that they should stand up to top tier troops one on one. (Unless they're in skarsnik's army.).

[Imposter]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Stupid question. But how the heck are your goblin fanatics being so low hp that they cannot use their special ability?

You need to be below 25% hp for that. Surely you can get it of atleast once per battle. Night Goblins have stalk. They shouldn't be drawing enemy fire on the approach.

Yes, they should have a health% because unlike every other ranged special attack, for fanatics they are the ranged special attck.

Sieges mainly. I'm getting artied, arrow towers and shot to ribbons by ranged infantry, then the ranged weapon doesn't function as intended, on certain terrain.

[Falaris]

Originally posted by Blasted:

Originally posted by Rianne:

Stupid question. But how the heck are your goblin fanatics being so low hp that they cannot use their special ability?

You need to be below 25% hp for that. Surely you can get it of atleast once per battle. Night Goblins have stalk. They shouldn't be drawing enemy fire on the approach.

Yes, they should have a health% because unlike every other ranged special attack, for fanatics they are the ranged special attck.

Sieges mainly. I'm getting artied, arrow towers and shot to ribbons by ranged infantry, then the ranged weapon doesn't function as intended, on certain terrain.

The whole 'walls detect stalking units at huge range' thing needs to go from sieges. Sure, it became a bit of a meme using stalk units to capture the VP quickly, but stalk's supposed to be effective in such situations. CA needs to make a more convincing solution to that.

[IonizedMercury]

Originally posted by Falaris:

Originally posted by Blasted:

Sieges mainly. I'm getting artied, arrow towers and shot to ribbons by ranged infantry, then the ranged weapon doesn't function as intended, on certain terrain.

The whole 'walls detect stalking units at huge range' thing needs to go from sieges. Sure, it became a bit of a meme using stalk units to capture the VP quickly, but stalk's supposed to be effective in such situations. CA needs to make a more convincing solution to that.

Yeah no. Only if the AI gets to try and sucker-punch the player in the same way. But if that happens there'll of course be whining from the usual casuals that they lost battles despite putting no effort or attention into them.

I've had it with the player being given so many overpowered tools...while CA dumbs the AI down and denies it the use of such tools. No more. Eff that hand-holding and insulting mollycoddling.

[Imposter]

Originally posted by Falaris:

Night fanatics' biggest advantage is skulk, not the whirly fanatics. Not sure why you're having trouble with missiles as them, they're not supposed to be seen on the approach, and they're not supposed to approach from the front. That's what you got orcs for, they're happy being shot in the face.

Secondly, why are you complaining they can't fight ironbreakers? They cost almost three times as much, and night goblins are really weak against heavy armor. (Skarsnik's blueberries, less so, but still - get black orcs, trolls or skulkers or other units with high AP values if you want to fight dwarves, especially the 100+ armor ones.).

Thirdly, this is the tabletop warhammer description of the fanatics:

When used against the enemy, the Night Goblin Fanatic is held down by his mates until an enemy unit approach close enough for them to launch their attack. At this time, the mob hands the fanatic the end of a massive chain and chucks him in the direction of the enemy. Free at last, the deranged Night Goblin would spin crazily. After the initial shove, the Fanatic has no directional control and will recklessly plough through anything, including both enemy troops or even his own regiment. Eventually, however, a Fanatic will stumble, throttle himself with his chain or simply collapse, dying in a maniacal and convulsive fit. Extremely few have ever survived their experience as a fanatic, and through it all, those Fanatics that have met their end bears a look of self-satisfaction upon their tongue-lolling face.

They're not a dead serious unit you can expect consistent results from. If they're sometimes wrecking your own troops instead, they're working as intended. It's a feature, not a bug. (With that said, they did get improved.).

Fourthly, they are marked as expendable. That should probably be a hint that they're not your highest value heavy hitters. I get the impression you want them to be something they're not. Which is okay, there's mods for that, but it's probably going to be difficult to get traction for a general argument that they should stand up to top tier troops one on one. (Unless they're in skarsnik's army.).

Being seen in sieges are unavoidable, since most of the space in them are quite cramped and full of choke points. Skulkers are indeed great units, but they aren't NightGoblins, in terms of their Lord-Specific buffs, like Night Goblin Warlords.

I wasn't complaining about IronBreakers. I mentioned in my OP about Dwarfs in general not Ironbreakers. Ye mentioned them, not me, what Ye mentioned had 0 to do with my mention of Dwarfs from my OP.

Your third mention about them doing things inconsistently is something I understand, I know about the lore, but it also doesn't say that Night Goblins CANNOT use their ranged attack being at 25% health, or being obstructed by nothing and do nothing.

If you read my OP I stated they aren't functioning as "intended"(bugged most likely) like spinning in place; does nothing, at certain terrain(or not appearing at all doing 0 damage) in sieges, and very few areas in open battle fields. There's a few in Dark Elf maps, and there's another 'open field'-map where only one choke point exists at the middle of the map where they don't work as intended there either; Where the choke point dips down toward the narrow passage, like Siege map areas they either don't appear at all, in some instances, or they spin in place because of some weird terrain obstruction that isn't visible.

So even while the "Special-Ranged Weapon" can appear spinning place smack-dab inside the enemy line, by a non-visible obstruction: It does 0 damage, it did nothing and disappeared sometimes in less than a second.

Why shouldn't they be more than expendable? They are at Level 4 infantry building, their highest tier of infantry, besides Black Orcs? Skulkers are at Tier 2 and overperform vs. Fanatics, that is looney.

No, im asking for HP increase, and to do away with the arbitrary health % that disallows use of the Special Ranged weapon(please find that in the lore for me), added to fixing some buggy areas where they don't work at all.

[Falaris]

Originally posted by IonizedMercury:

Originally posted by Falaris:

The whole 'walls detect stalking units at huge range' thing needs to go from sieges. Sure, it became a bit of a meme using stalk units to capture the VP quickly, but stalk's supposed to be effective in such situations. CA needs to make a more convincing solution to that.

Yeah no. Only if the AI gets to try and sucker-punch the player in the same way. But if that happens there'll of course be whining from the usual casuals that they lost battles despite putting no effort or attention into them.

I've had it with the player being given so many overpowered tools...while CA dumbs the AI down and denies it the use of such tools. No more. Eff that hand-holding and insulting mollycoddling.

Good thing that's not what I'm asking for then. I'm asking for a solution that doesn't magically give walls vision, because that was a stupid, low-effort solution.

[IonizedMercury]

Originally posted by Falaris:

Originally posted by IonizedMercury:

Yeah no. Only if the AI gets to try and sucker-punch the player in the same way. But if that happens there'll of course be whining from the usual casuals that they lost battles despite putting no effort or attention into them.

I've had it with the player being given so many overpowered tools...while CA dumbs the AI down and denies it the use of such tools. No more. Eff that hand-holding and insulting mollycoddling.

Good thing that's not what I'm asking for then. I'm asking for a solution that doesn't magically give walls vision, because that was a stupid, low-effort solution.

Yes, you are asking for exactly that as long as it's yet another player-exclusive tool to cheat for an easy victory.

[Falaris]

Originally posted by Blasted:

Why shouldn't they be more than expendable? They are at Level 4 infantry building, their highest tier of infantry, besides Black Orcs? Skulkers are at Tier 2 and overperform vs. Fanatics, that is looney.

No, im asking for HP increase, and to do away with the arbitrary health % that disallows use of the Special Ranged weapon(please find that in the lore for me), added to fixing some buggy areas where they don't work at all.

Why are you so hung up on the HP to use the ability? Most units can't use abilities like that when they lose morale. Fanatics has 100 leadership, so it's HP based instead.

Fanatics massacre skulkers in combat. Absolutely massacre them. The difference is, skulkers have better AP, but fanatics are way better at fighting, and have poison. Not sure how that makes skulkers 'overperform' vs fanatics.

Why are fanatics expendable yet are from a tier 4 building? Because, despite being tier 4, they cost the same as a tier 1-2 unit, but perform way better than one. Cost effectiveness has value. If what you want is a heavy fighter, recruit black orcs instead. It's from the same building, even.

[Falaris]

Originally posted by IonizedMercury:

Originally posted by Falaris:

Good thing that's not what I'm asking for then. I'm asking for a solution that doesn't magically give walls vision, because that was a stupid, low-effort solution.

Yes, you are asking for exactly that as long as it's yet another player-exclusive tool to cheat for an easy victory.

I asked for a solution that doesn't make walls magically all-seeing. That, as a requirement, doesn't imply a player exclusive tool to cheat for an easy victory. Take your soap box out of my face.