Let Wissenland rebel.... then conquer them.

[Holeypaladin]

Here's a tip for all the Empire players out there, struggling with the early game as they lack decent artillery and are forced to use the crappy sub-standard Empire infantry and lack of good cavalry until you get to tier 3 stables or Castle Reikguard.

Wissenland starts off at 2 Fealty, and in order to confederate them, you need to get this up to ten. Which can take a very, very long time. However, it is also number one most useful province in the Empire, due to the special building, Nuln Cannon Foundry (and the upgraded form, Nuln Gunnery School).

Now, Nuln Cannon Foundary is the single best building in the game, as it is a tier three building that allows you to produce tier four Empire artillery (Great cannons and Helstorm Rocket Batteries), and when recruited by the elector count of Wissenland with Combustion Agent research, these artillery start off at level six, massively boosting their accuracy. So, rather than trying to get Wissenland's Fealty up to ten... try to make it drop to zero, or at least look forward to the event where they rebel, as this allows you to conquer the territory by force. The war will cost you some Imperial Authority, but it's totally worth it, and it will still cost less than the confederation cost. Build that cannon foundry as quick as you can, as it will let you use powerful tier four artillery to boost your otherwise weak armies.

[Kristowis]

I'm almost done with my Empire campaign (turn 100 and got a warning about the Biggest Waagh crisis coming) and the problem I'm having right now is too few imperial authority points to confederate the three remaining provinces so I keep having to refuse them and rely on random events to get said points. I know there are ways to farm them but this was my very first time playing the Empire so I didn't really know what I was doing.

[Krude]

"crappy sub standard empire infantry" oooffff big self expose.

Empire have two of the most desirable infantry units in the game, an unbreakable yet affordable front line and the incredibly cost efficient greatswords.

It's a good thing this is pve as relying on artillery is a hilariously bad idea there.

[chaosbringer42]

Originally posted by Kristowis:

I'm almost done with my Empire campaign (turn 100 and got a warning about the Biggest Waagh crisis coming) and the problem I'm having right now is too few imperial authority points to confederate the three remaining provinces so I keep having to refuse them and rely on random events to get said points. I know there are ways to farm them but this was my very first time playing the Empire so I didn't really know what I was doing.

Taking cities back and reviving electors gives essentially infinite Authority (they die off soon after reviving).

As to the OP -

I agree fully with letting Wissenland rebel and taking them out.

But Greatswords are the best T3 melee infantry in the game, are cheap, and have a chance vs ANY other infantry in the game (they even beat Chosen in 1v1s once and a while). Halbs tend to die fast, but generally do 4-5x their worth in damage if you have them hit cav or monsters like they are meant to. Flagellants are terrible in every way, yet are a 2+ minute speedbump vs almost anything in the game because they are unbreakable.

Empire Infantry is far better than most in the game, and it shows if you use them properly.

[Holeypaladin]

Originally posted by Krude:

"crappy sub standard empire infantry" oooffff big self expose.

Empire have two of the most desirable infantry units in the game, an unbreakable yet affordable front line and the incredibly cost efficient greatswords.

It's a good thing this is pve as relying on artillery is a hilariously bad idea there.

Flatulents Flagellants are only useful if you're Volkmar or if you plan on using them to stall enemy forces while your bombard them with your own artillery... in which case they're still pretty useless if you don't have artillery. Plus they require a tier 3 building and more expensive than halberdiers, with even worse melee defense stats than greatswords and no armor to speak of.

Greatswords are also tier 3, and their defensive stats are terrible. Definitely not the best tier 3 infantry... bladesingers and Longbeards are both way better... but if you want to recruit Greatswords, Wissenland has iron mines so it's a better place to do than the starting provinces are, so my advice still stands. There's a very short window in which you can make use of the Empire's tier 3 infantry, as they'll quickly become outclassed by tier four and five enemy infantry, and you will never get better than tier 2 when it comes to your line-holders. So yes, infantry is sub-standard, and by a lot.

[Hieronymous]

First off, I appreciate your post. I love hearing about an unorthodox strategy to get units you like in te field ASAP. Bonus points for prioritizing explosions.

I disagree with your characterization of imperial infantry, however. Sub-standard? More like THE standard. And I don't just mean from a fashion perspective though I do mean that primarily.

Please remember the three C's of effective infantry.

Cost Effective
Combat Effective
Codpieces

[Holeypaladin]

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

First off, I appreciate your post. I love hearing about an unorthodox strategy to get units you like in te field ASAP. Bonus points for prioritizing explosions.

I disagree with your characterization of imperial infantry, however. Sub-standard? More like THE standard. And I don't just mean from a fashion perspective though I do mean that primarily.

Please remember the three C's of effective infantry.

Cost Effective
Combat Effective
Codpieces

Love your post. Empire definitely has it going when it comes to Fashion... Greatswords in particular.

They've got the cost effective and codpiece thing going, definitely, but every time I throw them at enemy infantry in the late game they get slaughtered, so I don't find them combat effective. You could argue that they're a hammer which is ineffective without an anvil, and I agree, but the real problem is that the Empire is stuck with a tier two anvil that doesn't anvil very well against anything higher than tier two... which is everything the enemies recruit past turn 50. If we had some higher tier Greatsword variants (with even bigger codpieces) that were more combat effective while still being cost effective, I'd definitely use them.

[Ashley]

Most of Empires enemies are melee infantry gods so yeah they lose

[RadCon One]

Originally posted by Krude:

"crappy sub standard empire infantry" oooffff big self expose.

Empire have two of the most desirable infantry units in the game, an unbreakable yet affordable front line and the incredibly cost efficient greatswords.

It's a good thing this is pve as relying on artillery is a hilariously bad idea there.

Empire infantry sucks horribly. Are you maybe talking about MP, because if not the self expose is you buddy.

[SomeGuy1]

Originally posted by Holeypaladin:

Originally posted by Krude:

"crappy sub standard empire infantry" oooffff big self expose.

Empire have two of the most desirable infantry units in the game, an unbreakable yet affordable front line and the incredibly cost efficient greatswords.

It's a good thing this is pve as relying on artillery is a hilariously bad idea there.

Flatulents Flagellants are only useful if you're Volkmar or if you plan on using them to stall enemy forces while your bombard them with your own artillery... in which case they're still pretty useless if you don't have artillery. Plus they require a tier 3 building and more expensive than halberdiers, with even worse melee defense stats than greatswords and no armor to speak of.

Greatswords are also tier 3, and their defensive stats are terrible. Definitely not the best tier 3 infantry... bladesingers and Longbeards are both way better... but if you want to recruit Greatswords, Wissenland has iron mines so it's a better place to do than the starting provinces are, so my advice still stands. There's a very short window in which you can make use of the Empire's tier 3 infantry, as they'll quickly become outclassed by tier four and five enemy infantry, and you will never get better than tier 2 when it comes to your line-holders. So yes, infantry is sub-standard, and by a lot.

to be fair, bladesingers are on the same cost as har ganeth executioners and Temple Guards, they're considered elites even though they're recruited at tier 3 (I had to check that they were, yeesh. Though they do need a second building, and I don't usually have room for it until later than that).
I'd honestly rather have White Lions of Chrace most of the time, they have less hp but substantially more MDef (note that Martial Prowess is +12) and also 30% missile resist, and people rag on those all the time (they shouldn't, white lions are great).
Of course, debating the merits of a unit tagged as "Damage Dealer" in a line holding capacity says something. Greatswords have 30 MDef and no shields or charge defense. Their intended job is to kill line holding infantry (which are typically bad at hitting back) with that delicious 14 BvI (so yes, the trade up vs Axe and Shield Chosen, they are the counter to that type of unit. But Great Weapons just slaughter them)--you're only using them in a defensive capacity because Empire doesn't have much else. Anything that gets past their armor cuts through them real fast.

[MulticornRB]

Why waste time and not conquer them directly?! With intelligent settlement trading you can even confederate Gelt at turn 6 or 7. By this time the IA-Farm at Hergig should start to run too.

[Holeypaladin]

Originally posted by MulticornRB:

Why waste time and not conquer them directly?! With intelligent settlement trading you can even confederate Gelt at turn 6 or 7. By this time the IA-Farm at Hergig should start to run too.

An excellent question, with a simple answer.

Declaring war on an elector reduces your Imperial Authority by three. And this is on top of the Imperial Authority lost by eliminating an elector.

When they rebel and you conquer them, you only suffer the second hit to your Imperial Authority, not the massive three point hit for declaring war on them.

Also, the ease with which you'll conquer Wissenland really shows how weak Empire infantry is compared to everything else you fight.

[MulticornRB]

This was more of a rhetorical question. Eliminating an Elector as the player will not cause IA loss. Causing a rebellion takes longer while you could get the Elector Steam Tank on turn two. While gobbling up Wissenland and confederating Solland in the first 10 turn will cost much IA you got the farm at Hergig where Festus needs to be dealt with anyways and the best Elector seat is located.

I’ m obviously speaking from my own experience and preferences and there are many ways to play this game but how long does it take to cause Wissenland rebel? Since only one Elector event can proc per turn there can be even further delays.

[Ashley]

It doesn't take long in my experience for their event probably less than 20 turns. Always early.

[Holeypaladin]

I did try declaring war on Wissenland and my IA immediately dropped by three, but when they rebelled it didn't drop at all.

In my experience, if you leave their Fealty at 2, they're likely to rebel within twenty turns or so, yes, since they're below the fealty threshhold for random rebellions. If you actively aggravate them, their fealty can drop due to poor relations, and a well-time random event might cause it to drop that second point, for an immediate rebellion when it hits zero. It's easier to aggravate them as Gelt since unlike Franz, he suffers trespassing penalties when he marches lords into elector states without a treaty, but hero actions against cities, using prestige to lower your relations, etc. can expedite the rebellion by making them hate you.

The Emperor's Wrath steam tank looks cool and all, but I wouldn't suggest hiring it unless you're willing to pay the +75% upkeep penalty for elector count troops. This upkeep penalty is really awful right now and completely unjustified. In the early game, it literally costs as much as an army, to maintain one tank.