There should be more ways to increase your maximum winds of magic in campaign

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Especially for factions that are supposed to be magically gifted. The Chaos Dwarfs can do it, which is good, but I don't see why the High Elves, Dark Elves, Vampires and Daemon factions wouldn't also get a similar mechanic.

[DecayWolf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Aneerah:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Reaver79:

And again if that is what you want why not simply make a mod ? No need for them to waste time on something that can be fixed as simple as that, they have plenty of things to work on already.

I'm not asking for it. I liked it a lot better in WH2, but I am under no illusion that CA is going to change the system, much less revert it to what it was in the previous game. I am simply arguing that knowledgeable stacking was harmless to the game.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DecayWolf:

The problem though, was that in wh2, anything that didn't had knowledge, was garbage.
Some people would even hire and dismiss heroes to collect as many knowledge asap.

That meant anything that didn't had it, was worthless hot garbage.
That knowledge was the meta.
And players were incetived to hire/kill to gather as many as possible.

I think it was a pretty ♥♥♥♥ system. Glad it's gone.

I don't think that's true at all. Most traits were decent, knowledgeable was just way stronger than most if heavily leaned into. Discipline was(and still is) a good stacking trait. There are several race specific ones too, like the dark elf 'spiteful'. It was all less broken than the leadership destroying traits, though. That is besides the point anyway because again, it was all optional. It wasn't 'meta', it was just one of many ways to take advantage of what the game offered.

Yeah, sure... Some traits were completely useless, others were quite competant as you've described.
But, knowledge was simply the best.

[Reaver79]

A lot of the traits where useless.. But balance is was seemingly never the point on them, it is also evident in WH3.

[Aneerah]

The ones I can think of that I'd agree are pretty useless would be Tactician, Determined, and Confident. The ones that give a tiny leadership buff. Otherwise I think the rest are decent, with one that's kind of situational (intelligent). I agree that knowledgeable was disproportional in its power, though.

[Reaver79]

Whats the one for bloodletter heroes, Hat of khorne or bad hat or some s*** that gives +3 khorne corruption in your location.. There are plenty of that kinda useless ones last i checked, tho i will admit i am running a mod that changes them all and makes em all at least useful, so they could have changed em without me noticing i guess..

Anyways, if OP wants this, i firmly believe that a mod is the way to go, if he cant make one him self one can always try and request one in the modders forum.

[Aneerah]

There's probably more race-specific ones, I was just thinking of the generic traits right now.

[DecayWolf]

I don't remember all from top of my head, but things like strong, tough for mages lords, that don't even have very tough mounts, such as dragons... Well... May as well not give me anything.

There are more, I don't remember them all, but there is a fair share of traits that shouldn't be bothered, while some such as disciplined are on very high desirable list.
I think WH3 is better on this regard, it's overall a little bit better balanced. Not saying it's perfect though, by any means.

[Aneerah]

I don't know, I quite like the traits that enhance character fighting capabilities. Strong, tough, Weapon Master, Aggressive and so on. They're not going to be able to 1v1 Skarbrand, Malus etc, but you can do quite a bit with a supreme sorceress on a black dragon, for instance. Even manticores and great eagles are pretty decent. I play elves the most by far, so it might not be quite as relevant with every race, but I still think they are very valuable for warrior characters.

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Reaver79:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Naram-Sin:

This is you being a dumb-ass infatuated with the status quo again. Having a wizard hero spam army is *not* a reasonable way of increasing Winds of Magic. Magic is strong, but not strong enough to bring along nothing but wizards because they increase your winds by 5 at level 8.

You are not meant to have unending WoM for the most part, very few lords should have access to that if any (and some do), the superiority of High mages etc. just does not work if you want the game to be playable in MP as it would wreck any kinda balance real quick. Magic is already very impactful when used right.
If anything they should perhaps look into makeing buff/debuff spells more worth their price as far as i understand they seem to be at a point of not worth it.
You can cry all you want about my dumb ass, but that dont really change the fact that your posts seems to follow a pattern of you playing a faction and if it is not powerful enough for you to win, it needs buffs..
But hey maybe that's just how you make it sound and not the case at all..

Who said anything about limitless WoM? It wouldn't be me.

Now, I know that reading is hard for people like you, especially when the sacred status quo has been insulted and spat upon, but my problem isn't that this game is hard. Warhammer 3 is actually pretty easy. Nurgle isn't even that hard, and he might have the hardest start. The problem is that Nurgle is crap and not particularly fun, and his gameplan around beating his first enemy pretty much always revolves around cheese because his faction is fundamentally broken.

Now, in a similar manner, I have no problem playing magical faction. In fact, the more magical factions are some of the strongest. However, if you read further (and this will unfortunately require you to hold back your indignation at the status quo being insulted), you'll find that my issue is not that magic his hard, but that the Chaos Dwarfs have a built-in mechanic that allows them to increase their winds reserves factionwide, while faction that are supposed to be better than them at magic cannot. I assumed this is because CA initially misgauged which winds-related buffs would be the most important after the Winds of Magic rework. I would just like the other factions brought into line with the Chaos Dwarfs.

[DecayWolf]

Since I haven't played Edge dawi, what does they have that gives free WoM reserve?
Can it be built everywhere? Is it a landmark? Is it level 4 - 5 settlement required? Is it limited to resources?

And what are their lore of magic? Do they get access to the forbidden rod and black periapt?

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DecayWolf:

Since I haven't played Edge dawi, what does they have that gives free WoM reserve?
Can it be built everywhere? Is it a landmark? Is it level 4 - 5 settlement required? Is it limited to resources?

And what are their lore of magic? Do they get access to the forbidden rod and black periapt?

The Temple of Hashut is a Tier 5 building, so it can only be built on capital "Tower" cities. That said, it isn't unique or limited beyond having to be built in capital cities with the "tower" settlement type (which is the default for capitals). What's more, the Chaos Dwarfs don't use growth as a mechanic, and can even skip the building time by sacrificing slav- *ahem* "labourers," so they can literally skip straight to tier 5 if they have enough materials. In fact, you can take a capital city straight up to tier 5 the moment you capture it if you have enough Conclave Influence since they have the Skaven mechanic of being able to upgrade settlements they just captured, just using Conclave Influence instead of Food.

[DecayWolf]

Yeah... Even if just 1 WoM, that still sounds unfair. I mean, VC, Cadai, Tzeentch are more obvious choices to have it instead.

Maybe since we are at this... Instead of increasing the cap, why not reduce it instead?
Like lower empire magic to 75 - 80 max. With the exception that gelt would have a skill to boost to 100, etc.

[Aneerah]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DecayWolf:

Yeah... Even if just 1 WoM, that still sounds unfair. I mean, VC, Cadai, Tzeentch are more obvious choices to have it instead.

Maybe since we are at this... Instead of increasing the cap, why not reduce it instead?
Like lower empire magic to 75 - 80 max. With the exception that gelt would have a skill to boost to 100, etc.

I was actually thinking of something like that last night after going to bed, to the point where I even considered getting back up to write a post about it x)
What I imagined was splitting all races into, say, 3 tiers - high, mid and low, depending on the race's general proficiency with magic.
You could have humans as mid, alongside races like Beastmen, Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs and perhaps Vampires. I know vampires are generally considered great magic users, but they are also pretty limited in what they can do (with 4 lores of magic), so it's a case in which I imagine they'd do those 4 really well, but still maybe be considered 'mid' for the sake of categorizing.

For high you'd have races like Elves, Lizardmen and Chaos (at least Tzeentch), and for low I'd put the races that, while still being able to perform powerful magic, are very limited compared to other races. I'd personally put races like Greenskins and Skaven here.

Now, this is hardly a thought-out idea. Just something that came to mind while falling asleep, and the categorization of races based on magical capabilities is hardly an objective one, sadly.

[Aneerah]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Reaver79:

Again so why not simply make a mod ?
And yes if the AI had actually been doing that in WH2 it would have ruined the game for me.

Also, out of curiosity: What is your opinion of factions like Skarbrand's and Taurox? I personally find them much more egregious than something like a WoM cheese.

[Reaver79]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Naram-Sin:

Who said anything about limitless WoM? It wouldn't be me.

No one did, but then again since Dark power or whatever the Darkelf one is called did not suffice, you are clearly looking for way more than just a little boost.
Now i know logical thinking is hard for people like you.. But if 7-8 WoM pr. caster aint enough for you then you clearly might as well go for an unlimited WoM mod, and if you do wanna moderate your self, then ask for a mod where they give it a significant boost instead, it aint that hard is it ?

[Reaver79]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Aneerah:

out of curiosity: What is your opinion of factions like Skarbrand's and Taurox? I personally find them much more egregious than something like a WoM cheese.

I have very little opinion on them.. I find both real boring to play, the BM after their last reword is a no brainer, you go into battle you lose some units because you simply dont care, you hire new ones as they are free, you hide while you do so, and then you just steam roll the next thing in your way.. Taurox just takes the sillyness of this way of playing to the max with his momentum mechanics, often seen at lev 50 around some turn 20-30 depending on the player..
Skarbrand i think is utterly boring as lore, as concept, and in play style.. But at least he has some problems, LL's like Imrik are hard on him and will easy take him on with little to no support due to all his fire resist, + he is super easy to focus down with ranged..
In campaign he is a true powerhouse because he gets regain + a banner that gives regain and so he is near unstoppable, unless you play like a ♥♥♥♥ and charge him solo into a lot of ranged and possibly some very strong lord.. He has problems in his animations, often wasting 10-15 sec doing nothing but running into and/or around enemies that he is supposed to be hitting, all this makes him less unbalanced, but i agree that 15k units with regain that can just smash just about anything is not good for the game either.
And i'd even say the point that his faction does not have access to magic, does kinda even that out, it is only due to AI being a suck a** at playing that he does not have a harder time than he does.
Also in general his faction suffers from the fire dmg type that pretty much all their top tier units have, some factions have an easier time against that, tho i guess it is mainly just Imrik & the Chorfs, but those are both in somewhat close proximity to him, and it is naturally a boon against undeads to cut back on their healing.

But in short, i do not really like either of those factions no.